I'm glad the the Bridgemen got DQed in 77

[Opti-Burr]

I have mixed feelings about the 77 Garfield Cadets. I believe that if they didnt sing amen at the end of their show,that we would have beat them and made finals. I believe from back then that they received a penalty for singing but made up for it in general effect. I also believe that had we beat them and made finals that the Kingsmen would have been around alot longer. You cant change the past and you have to live with it. Neadless to say i came so close to making finals. Ugh.

Thomas Salvatore

If I'm not mistaken, I think that the Garfield Cadets DIDN"T sing Amen at the 1977 Prelims. Instead, they displayed a big banner stating that they weren't sing it at that performance, due to the penalty that they got all season long for singing.

[1977Kingsmen]

You mignt be right about that opti. I dont remember seeing them during prelims so i stand corrected. I do know that your corps beat us every time playing the same west side story, your yellow uniform seemed to be an exact replica of our uniform.

[Tim K]

I think you're correct. I recall seeing a photo in either Drum Corps News or Drum Corps World with a member of the colorguard holding the above mentioned sign. I also remeber people talking about the 1977 finals and the fact Kingsmen did not make the top twelve, focussing on the corps' major improvements between CYO Nationals and DCI prelims, but thought Garfield's prelim performance was strong.

If I'm not mistaken, I think that the Garfield Cadets DIDN"T sing Amen at the 1977 Prelims. Instead, they displayed a big banner stating that they weren't sing it at that performance, due to the penalty that they got all season long for singing.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Tim K

[Opti-Burr]

You mignt be right about that opti. I dont remember seeing them during prelims so i stand corrected. I do know that your corps beat us every time playing the same west side story, your yellow uniform seemed to be an exact replica of our uniform.

I'm thinking that if Garfield had of sang, that Kingsmen might have made finals, due to the penalty that Cadets would have gotten.

Yeah, we were nicknamed "banana-heim" because of the tunic design being so close to Kingman's. A couple of our instructors marched with Kingsmen in the early 70's.

[overthehillDM]

I'm rarely on here anymore, but I was surprised to find yet another 77 Bridgemen topic. It's almost reminiscent of the Black Sox Scandal of 1919, except for a few small details. (sarcasm off) Once more, hopefully for the last time, I would like to shed some light on the 77 Bridgemen, when I was 17 years old.

We had a very interesting mix of home-grown members, and out-of-towners, like me. It all came together rather well, especially when Jim Brady, our extraordinary soloist was entered into the mix. It was an incredible ride. Best year of drum corps ever for me! Why? We survived, and got through a horrible experience. There is far more to learn about life, and the inhabitants of this planet than merely competition. The Bridgemen experience in 1977 taught me a GREAT DEAL ABOUT LIFE!

Did we know what was going on in regard to "rules infractions"? Not until DCI MIDWEST in Whitewater, Wisconsin, when we were lined up, and asked to produce personal identification. The two members that had marched as 21-year-olds, didn't march again. They were replaced. Did our staff/management misinterpret the rules, and drop the ball? Apparently so, but most of us were just innocent teenagers doing our best to compete on the national level with our peers. Not sure how or why this specific misinterpretation of DCI rules occurred, but let it be known that most of the corps was not aware of this, although some individuals would have you believe that the entire corps conspired to have two of our members violate the rules of DCI in 1977. This was just not the case, and I suppose that those people who believe this to be true also believe that the Red Sox have won 27 World Championships, and not the Yankees. :)

We were informed that we were DISQUALIFIED after traveling from Fort Collins, CO., to Boulder, CO., the day before prelims. It was very devastating, and our spirits were very low. We learned that we had been reinstated (thanks to a court injunction) when we arrived at prelims, 30 minutes before our performance.

Of course, as some have mentioned, we gave some very intense performances at prelims, and at finals. We overcame the jeers, and turned them into cheers, at some point during each show. That was incredibly gratifying, and exhilarating!

In 77, we had a strong horn line, a drum line and guard that were coming on, decent marching, and a rather weak visual program. But the overall package was pretty strong, and packed a lot of punch.

Winning the very first DCI EAST Championship at J. Birney Crum, against some pretty strong competition... was one of many highlights of 1977 for all of us.

And for those that like to take shots at the Bridgemen...that is your prerogative. It's a free country. (At least for now) We didn't appeal to everyone,(and still don't) but then again, there are several corps that don't appeal to me, for various reasons. But I will always respect them, and give them credit for working hard, and performing to the best of their abilities!

That's what drum corps is all about.

Thanks for reading.

Peace, love, and Happy New Year!

Jim Jordan

[DCIHasBeen]

I'm rarely on here anymore, but I was surprised to find yet another 77 Bridgemen topic. It's almost reminiscent of the Black Sox Scandal of 1919, except for a few small details. (sarcasm off) Once more, hopefully for the last time, I would like to shed some light on the 77 Bridgemen, when I was 17 years old.

We had a very interesting mix of home-grown members, and out-of-towners, like me. It all came together rather well, especially when Jim Brady, our extraordinary soloist was entered into the mix. It was an incredible ride. Best year of drum corps ever for me! Why? We survived, and got through a horrible experience. There is far more to learn about life, and the inhabitants of this planet than merely competition. The Bridgemen experience in 1977 taught me a GREAT DEAL ABOUT LIFE!

Did we know what was going on in regard to "rules infractions"? Not until DCI MIDWEST in Whitewater, Wisconsin, when we were lined up, and asked to produce personal identification. The two members that had marched as 21-year-olds, didn't march again. They were replaced. Did our staff/management misinterpret the rules, and drop the ball? Apparently so, but most of us were just innocent teenagers doing our best to compete on the national level with our peers. Not sure how or why this specific misinterpretation of DCI rules occurred, but let it be known that most of the corps was not aware of this, although some individuals would have you believe that the entire corps conspired to have two of our members violate the rules of DCI in 1977. This was just not the case, and I suppose that those people who believe this to be true also believe that the Red Sox have won 27 World Championships, and not the Yankees. :)

We were informed that we were DISQUALIFIED after traveling from Fort Collins, CO., to Boulder, CO., the day before prelims. It was very devastating, and our spirits were very low. We learned that we had been reinstated (thanks to a court injunction) when we arrived at prelims, 30 minutes before our performance.

Of course, as some have mentioned, we gave some very intense performances at prelims, and at finals. We overcame the jeers, and turned them into cheers, at some point during each show. That was incredibly gratifying, and exhilarating!

In 77, we had a strong horn line, a drum line and guard that were coming on, decent marching, and a rather weak visual program. But the overall package was pretty strong, and packed a lot of punch.

Winning the very first DCI EAST Championship at J. Birney Crum, against some pretty strong competition... was one of many highlights of 1977 for all of us.

And for those that like to take shots at the Bridgemen...that is your prerogative. It's a free country. (At least for now) We didn't appeal to everyone,(and still don't) but then again, there are several corps that don't appeal to me, for various reasons. But I will always respect them, and give them credit for working hard, and performing to the best of their abilities!

That's what drum corps is all about.

Thanks for reading.

Peace, love, and Happy New Year!

Jim Jordan

You know, Jimmy, this thread is so full of fail that it is amazing.

The only folks who new what really went down in the back rooms that year are all dead...

One thing that I did know, because of a conversation at the Chapel in the Fall of '76, was that Hoffman knew about the rules clarification, said he was going to play dumb, because we didn't officially receive it from DCi (we weren't members until after the rules congress, but the clarification of marching age and birth dates was sent out in Sept./October, and Hoffman knew all about it.)

Shame is, he didn't have to play loose, and run the risk that got us screwed...We didn't need the extra body that badly. Bobby was an immature jerk, a man-child with no sense of responsibility, who thought he was what the corps had nicknamed him..."God".

On the other side of the coin, there were a couple of corps directors who convinced the guy that turned us in that doing so was in the best interest of his corps, and that his corps would likely be deprived of a championship by a bunch of cheaters if he didn't blow the whistle. Those corps directors also new that, in reality, the political push for us by Angelica was such that the director who blew the whistle would incur the wrath of Angelica, and thereby kill any chances of his corps winning the title.

Basically, the corps directors that put the whistle blower up to it were killing two birds with one stone.

Nice, huh? Pretty sweet politics to play with the emotional well being of a couple of hundred kids (taking into account two corps got screwed over by this deal.)

Why don't we just conclude this otherwise useless, and hatefully-titled, thread by saying that the politics and the players of the day were FUBAR'd beyond the telling of it ... Nobody who was there and went through it would wish it on their worst enemy, and anybody who says they wish they had been there to know what really happened has no idea what kind of a horror show they would have been wishing themselves into.

I just hope our generation treats their kids better than the previous one did us ...

Happy New Year!

Edited January 4, 2012 by DCIHasBeen

[DCIHasBeen]

Oh, and for the record, and I've said this before... The 1977 Garfield Cadets had an amazing show. Between the brass line, the soloists, the musical arrangements, including Jerry Shelmer's whacky drum book, was one of the best drum corps shows of the era. Not the best performed in all captions, but a helluva' lot of fun to watch.

[ozarkbugler]

Of course, as some have mentioned, we gave some very intense performances at prelims, and at finals. We overcame the jeers, and turned them into cheers, at some point during each show. That was incredibly gratifying, and exhilarating!

Jim Jordan

Let it be known that I am man enough to admit that I was one of those jeering when your corps was announced at finals (although not as loud as others). My jeers were also turned to cheers later as you have suggested. I so wish that the bananas were still within the ranks of DCI today.

[Tim K]

I think I admitted in an earlier post, either on this thread or another, that I was not the biggest Bridgemen fan in 77. Part of it was justified. I thought too much was happening on the field and it was hard to follow. I was happy they were disqualified, because, as an eighth grader heading into ninth, it was a great way for my favorite corps, the 27^th Lancers, to place higher. I probably would have loved to see Blue Devils disqualified in 1977 so that Phantom could have won. It’s not the most mature reasoning, as a matter of fact, it’s just plain silly, but that’s how a fourteen year old thinks. I also recall watching the PBS broadcast and the loud jeers that awaited the Bridgemen and was certain they’d be a flop. I felt sorry for them but they still put on quite a show. Now over thirty years later, I think like an adult (hopefully) and admire the pluck of 126 dejected and disappointed kinds who had to suffer based on decisions that were not theirs to make. Perhaps I read into it too much, but I feel the 1977 Legacy DVD which contains the Bridgemen’s show does not have the fire that earlier performances had, and it’s easy to understand why, but it was still quite a show.

Often when I watch the Legacy DVD’s, I choose one corps and watch that segment, then switch to another year and view that segment, etc. I still find that 1977 was too busy visually, though the music was great. It was still too cluttered for my tastes in 1978. In 1979 I wanted to continue hating the Bridgemen, but when a color guard member made a quick change and became a “judge,” I didn’t see the change, thought a real judge was dancing to the show, and thought she was favoring the Bridgemen and it was totally unfair to the other competitors. When I realized it was a gimmick, I don’t remember laughing so hard at a drum corps competition in my life. I realized that no matter how much I wanted to fight it, the Bridgemen’s magic was contagious.

BTW, my favorite Bridgemen show: 1981. It was not the greatest year competitively for the corps, but for me, everything the Bridgemen hoped to be, a strong competitive drum corps that had a sophisticated approach to entertainment came together in 1981.

[ironlips]

Some events in drum corps have an amazing resonance, and this is one of them.

I was Garfield's brass instructor in '77. We violated more rules than anybody. We sang. (Yes, at Prelims and Finals. It was the following year that a different staff chose not to do so.) We had the color guard play brass. Both of these carried threat of disqualification.

I rationalized the latter to the rules Nazis by claiming they were horn players who carried flags, and there was no rule against that. As for singing, I wanted to remove it for Prelims since I knew we would be borderline and even a one tenth penalty could bump my students out. The corps wouldn't hear of it and demanded we sing. #### the torpedoes. We did, and were penalized, and tied the Kilts.

The Bridgemen had nothing to do with it. They had bested us all year long and rightfully so. We weren't remotely competitive with them. Our job was to fend off the Kilts and Oakland. DeLucia and Hoffman were my close personal friends and I was deeply saddened by what happened to their corps. But the Bridgmen showed amazing resilience and came back stronger than ever. By 1980, they were once again in a position to win it all.

In the final analysis, it's quite an accomplishment to be absent from competition for almost 30 years and still remain one of the most beloved drum corps of all time. Those people were game changers and their influence is still being felt. Consider the band from Kyoto in this morning's Rose Parade. Bobby Hoffman, reloaded.

The OP was mis-informed about how Garfield got into Finals that year. The Cadets would have made it on the merits, regardless of any disqualification. Besides, there would certainly be no merit in moving up in position based on the misfortune of another corps. We were all aware of that and wanted nothing to do with it. Our motivation was to make the night show despite the DQ, not because of it.

Oakland and Anaheim were fabulous and they (and a couple of others) could have surpassed Garfield on any given day. And as for the Blue Devils, Santa Clara and Bridgemen, I was subsequently privileged to teach all of them and while they were intensely competitive, there was always great mutual respect among them.

Forgive the long post, but those of a certain age are obliged to pass on the history. That's the point of DCP's historical forum.

Edited January 3, 2012 by ironlips