Bridgemen penalty 1980

[byline]

Preface: Although I loved both corps, Bridgemen and Spirit I want you to know what I believe in my heart.  I first have to say that I find it difficult to believe that Bridgemen even beat Spirit. 

#1 I like a more serious drum corps, yes the B-men were different, and they were enjoyable.

#2 I still 24 years later find it quite hard to believe that Spirit didn't beat B-men by at least a point on that particular night at finals, never mind come 2nd to us and tie us had they not had a penalty.

I may get a lot of grief for this, it's my opinion, I was there, I lived it, and have more than worn out the tapes of 1980.  It was bad enough having to go on after Spirit, I thought they may have beat us.  Well not really, but no, wait, yes, they very easily could have and may be should have! 

But Bridgemen, although both from the east and having ties to each other in more ways than one, no way! 

I believe Spirit gave the performance of their life that night.....tying B-men in drums didn't hurt, Spirits horn line, well, we're still talking about them today.  We discuss how funny this or that was with B-men or the Black Market Juggler or the dancing girls and circus, however, do we ever say how clean they were, how great they marched........nevermind  :sshh:

I have to say, I agree with you. (I'm sure that comes as no surprise, since I've said it before.) And, as you say, this is not meant to knock Bridgemen. I love Bridgemen. But how they ever managed to overtake Spirit, much less come so close to Two-Seven, is beyond me. Because if we compare all the sections:

Brass: Both corps had really fine horn lines, but I've gotta give the edge to Spirit.

Drums: Both corps had superb drum lines; Bridgemen possibly gets the edge here . . . but not by much. Spirit had a pretty amazing drum line, too.

General Effect: Two different kinds of GE. Bridgemen had their irreverent humor, and yes, the Civil War finale went over huge in Birmingham. But Spirit had this whole other different kind of GE. More traditional, to be sure. But every bit as strong as what Bridgemen had, and it came mainly through the incredible emotion of that horn line. So, IMO, it's break-even in this caption, too.

Marching & Maneuvering: This is where, IMO, Bridgemen should've scored pretty low, both in terms of show design (and by that, I mean the drill-set part of it, not the GE part) and marching execution. It's no secret that when it came to marching, Bridgemen was one of the sloppier corps out there. (And I say that knowing full well that I came from a corps not known for its marching. I also knew there was a competitive price to be paid for that.) But strangely enough, that didn't happen. And I'll never understand why. On the other hand, Spirit had pretty solid M&M execution, and their marching program was far more demanding than Bridgemen's, with stronger aesthetic appeal, IMO, than Bridgemen's. So to me, with all other things being pretty much equal, M&M should've been the caption that pulled Spirit up over Bridgemen . . . and yet it wasn't.

I've always believed that if Bridgemen had ever got their marching program up there with the top corps, and kept on doing all the other things they did so well, they would've been unbeatable.

I can't answer the question about the penalty, though. I have no idea what it was for. Playing football (complete with cheerleaders) as their way of exiting the field? LOL! That's one of the funniest things I ever saw them do. :P

Edited April 12, 2004 by byline

[Malibu]

I don't think you sometimes give yourself enough credit and I believe you should be teaching a drum corps. Nothing against your local band, but I really can see you running up those stairs to watch the show as your corps lines up!

Did you know at first warming up the guard in the winter gave me me anxiety attacks which I hid! I was not into the power or pulling rank thing as so many end up being. Although now that I look back I am very, very proud that I made it to that. It was truly an honor. But as I've mentioned just as I was feeling good in my skin, it was 1980 retreat and the year was over. I needed and wanted 2 years!!!

And as you know although I've been asked, and did a few winter guards (but not for long) I am no instructor. I didn't have enough confidence #1, #2 - I can stand there and be beaten into the ground to be better, however I don't believe I could do it to somebody else for real. I liked the way we were taught in the hot sun, sweat pouring down, etc.

The thing is, besides that lack of confidence, and that's a big one, I would probably never, ever, ever be happy with the outcome. It just would never be good enough. As it was working with our junior guard, the ones that ended up in our lines at 11, 12 and 13, it was just not the same although I had them when they were 7 and 8 or somewhere around there.

OK, blind yet? Sorry, this went a little longer than I expected.

I appreciate what you said, but you are not giving yourself enough credit either. You said yourself that you wished you had two more years after you aged out. I think had you continued with guard and went on to be an instructor, I truly believe you would be where TJ, Scott Chandler and April are now. You were a guard Diva!

Or perhaps doing what Shirley or Denise does now....work for WGI.

I just don't see you with "lack of confidence. You've always (at least the times I've been around you) displayed enough confidence to make people bow down to you. :)

P.S......I don't mean to embarrass you, only to show you and everyone else here, that you would have made a fine guard instructor or judge. Don't think that I don't pay attention to your comments when we watch other corps perform. Most of your comments are right on the money! :P

[byline]

The thing is, besides that lack of confidence, and that's a big one, I would probably never, ever, ever be happy with the outcome. It just would never be good enough.  As it was working with our junior guard, the ones that ended up in our lines at 11, 12 and 13, it was just not the same although I had them when they were 7 and 8 or somewhere around there.

I had a friend who ended up leaving guard altogether because of the toll the competitive aspect of it took on her. She was a very competitive person, and also cared a great deal for all the girls who marched in her guards. But when her winter guard came in second at state finals every single year she taught, it just got to be too much. She realized that, for whatever reason, her guard was not going to be allowed to win. It was always going to be a guard from one of the bigger schools in the state who went on to compete at WGI. (Even though her guard would've been quite capable of competing at this level, the band parents refused to allow the guard to go to WGI. They felt that anything they had to prove should be done within the state, not nationally. And, unfortunately, not having WGI on their resume forever handicapped the guard competitively in state competition.)

Anyway . . . coming in second year after year after year finally took its toll. Not only did my friend leave that guard, but she left the activity altogether. For her, it was just too much to take to work that hard, be assured by judges that this was their year, only to fall short again at finals.

I, on the other hand, lasted 14 years in the high school activity, both teaching and judging. I did finally quit because I felt like I'd done all I wanted to do, and so it was a good time to leave and let the younger folks who didn't have to work as hard at choreography as I did take over. (LOL! I was sweating bullets every time I had to try to figure out how to work dance into my equipment work. Anyone who knows me from Oakland would be amazed that I ever managed to do it, because body movement just was not my strong suit. In fact, I had a bit of a panic attack every time I had to learn something new involving body movement . . . and that's even with it being as awkward as it was back in the late '70s.) I think that in a way, I was lucky, because I wasn't as competitive as my friend. I am competitive. But not to that extent. And so when we didn't place as high as we would've liked, it hurt, but it didn't depress me to the point it did her. I think my main focus in teaching guard was the expressive element of it. I so enjoyed listening to the music and coming up with my own visual take on it. So when I watched my guards perform, it was like watching a piece of myself out there. Kinda egotistical, I know. But that was why I put so much into what I did. I loved that whole process of seeing someone else perform something I'd created. And executing it (well, mostly, but not always) according to the standards I'd set for them. When that became less exciting for me, I knew it was time to quit.

Well, OK, I've yammered on for far too long here! And we've drifted a wee bit off-topic, haven't we? :)

Edited April 12, 2004 by byline

[Malibu]

Yeah Sue....we did drift, but's OK since I started the topic. :P

I enjoyed reading yours and Nancy's post....as always!

OK, back to the Bridgemen penalty that happened in 1980. I wrote to a few alumni who are trying to track down the actual recap that they were given. Maybe that will reveal what the penalty was for.

[Malibu]

Cheez, my avatar makes my uniform look hot pink....DOH

aaaaah but see hot pink looks great on you as well as red....no?

[tlmaddox]

Hank Granna was judging M&M Ex Side Two that night. Thats why Bayonne was placed ahead of Atlanta.

[JKatzmellophone]

Hank Granna was judging M&M Ex Side Two that night. Thats why Bayonne was placed ahead of Atlanta.

Not realy sure of the penalty. Was never talk about while I was there. I didn't know about it until this thread. I did see finals that year. Think about the time. It was all about the all mighty tick then. No question why 2-7 was ahead of Bayonne. Spirit though very emotional, was not as clean visually as Bayonne. This is pretty funny to think that Bayonne was ever clean in visual but that night was a steller performace for them. But think about it for a minute. When was the last time more then one corps from the East was within the top 5? Who care about a penalty?

Was just wondering if you were hinting on the North and South thing with the Civil Was Suite. If so b**bs

[Malibu]

was not as clean visually as Bayonne. This is pretty funny to think that Bayonne was ever clean in visual but that night was a steller performace for them. But think about it for a minute. When was the last time more then one corps from the East was within the top 5? Who care about a penalty?

Yeah....it's hard to think that Bayonne was cleaner in visuals, but every corps has their moments.

True, out of 12 corps that night in finals, 6 were from the East coast! Geez....makes me sad thinking how much I miss the likes of 27th Lancers, Bridgemen or North Star! :(

[byline]

Just got out my DCI yearbook for that year, and it's interesting to note that nearly all the finalist corps had penalties (only 27th Lancers and Santa Clara are listed in the finals recap as having 0 penalties):

Blue Devils .1

Bridgemen .2

Spirit .4

Phantom .3

Madison .3

Crossmen .3

Cavaliers .6

Garfield .1

North Star .2

Guardsmen .3

[byline]

Think about the time. It was all about the all mighty tick then. No question why 2-7 was ahead of Bayonne. Spirit though very emotional, was not as clean visually as Bayonne. This is pretty funny to think that Bayonne was ever clean in visual but that night was a steller performace for them.

It's hard for me to imagine that Bridgmen actually marched a cleaner show than Spirit . . . but maybe it happened. I was there too, but I don't have a photographic memory. What I remember is what most people remember: Bridgemen's Civil War, Spirit's horn line. And the telecast, of course, offers no help, because it shows very few sets for Bridgemen, or close-ups of marching, while it does more of that with Spirit. With Bridgemen, the telecast's focus was mostly on the theatrics . . . naturally.

What I do have is an old (and rapidly degrading) videotape of prelims. The shots are all high-cam, no close-ups. And, based on that--just watching the drill with the sound turned down--you would not put Bridgemen in the same league as Spirit. Bridgemen had a relatively simple drill with a lot of "follow the leader"-type marching, and, while there aren't any really noticeable performance breaks (I can't comment on the actual execution of the feet, since the angles are from up high), Bridgemen's forms don't exactly lock into place; the transitions appear somewhat mushy. It seems like that shouldn't happen with such a simple drill. Spirit, on the other hand, had a difficult drill, with fairly clean sets and clean transitions from one set to the next. (Though I do have to say that they're not perfect. They have a few mushy-looking transitions, too. But I give them the benefit of the doubt because they were marching a harder drill.) They had more individual demand, because each person had to judge spatially all around them whether they were in a form; for the most part, they couldn't rely on staying so many steps behind the person in front of them. And the speed with which their drill moved was often dramatically faster than Bridgemen's. That revolving sunburst move they do in the opener, with sections of the horn line crossing through one another, is a pretty amazing drill move. And the rotating/expanding sets they march in their drum solo are also remarkable. Bridgemen just don't have that kind of substance in their marching program.

Turn up the sound, and then, of course, the differences are less marked. Both corps have really magnificent horn lines, and are a joy to listen to. And the drum lines? Wow! Really, really superb.

Did Spirit pay the price for having a more difficult drill than Bridgemen? Maybe so. That's the irony, because as I recall, judges had asked Spirit to beef up their M&M to put them in contention with the top corps, and that's what they did.

Edited April 14, 2004 by byline