a question for any trumpet/soprano player

[Lukehart]

lol Gary....lets start up a conversation on this subject.

There are enough short replies to your original post to discuss for awhile. I am often perplexed with "simple" questions about my playing such as upstream and downstream. Let’s start at the beginning of this subject and reply to contrarich's unknowingly complicated question of the definition of upstream and downstream.

Those who are familiar with the subject know that there are several fiercely defended schools of thought regarding this topic. Let’s talk Roy Stevens Method VS. Pivot System which has 2 different definitions of the subject of up/downstream playing.

Let’s talk upstream.

Major proponents of the Roy Stevens Method state that upstreaming is when we close the lips, bring out our jaw, and purposely direct the air in an upward direction.

The Pivot System is based on the fact that mouthpiece placement determines where the air stream enters the mouthpiece. IE. If the player plays really low on the mouthpiece in relation to the upper lip, air will enter in the upper portion of the mouthpiece. This system has subcategories of up/downstream and pivots the horn suitable to their personal type of playing.

The clear cut difference in these 2 methods should be apparent. One states that upstream or down stream is a *skill* that is developed while the other says it is in the end, dependant on mouthpiece placement. (Not an obtained skill) You may still do things to accent the upstream, but it is still mouth placement which determines up/down.

I tend to lean toward the pivot system.

I get the impression that garebare(Gbass) would lean to the Roy Stevens method as he simply changed from upstream to downstream in a matter of 2 days. Re-positioning the mouthpiece would cause potentially months of adjustment. Before you endorse either method, truly analyze weather you were playing downstream before your switch. Heres some speculation: With your horn position and mouthpiece placement (position similar to Mike Bogartand low on the mouthpiece) it seems as though you might have indeed been playing upstream all along due to mouthpiece placement but consciously thinking of directing the air downward...which might would have been counter productive in your upper register playing and tone. Consciously focusing on blowing upstream in combination with your jaw slightly extended might have kicked up your range a half step or 2.

At least I don’t have mono. =p

Yes I know, extension of the lower jaw for upper register playing is a topic of debate in and of itself. I am not endorsing or condoning it at this time.

IMHO I truly have a hard time swallowing that anybody uses a straight on air stream at all registers. Often I find that we are just unaware of what we are doing to achieve the sound we are.

Discuss away.

-Daniel Lukehart

[cheezedogg 23]

I don' t about everyone. In highschool I was an upstream player, and it added range to me. But it was also very bright. I switched to more downtream thinking, still not true downstream But i think about going down, and I lost range for awhile. But it got 100% darker/warmer tone, and i eventually got the range back, and now i've way on the plus side. over an octave higher for a concert endurance level.

[big phan]

I agree that straight on is never something that you can do ALL the time. But to switch back and forth between up and down also ends up developing your embouchre wrong. I try to play straight on/leaning towards downstream for the most part because I find I can get more resonance and can play more relaxed. Even at the higher octaves, for me, if I think about playing downstream, I am able to relax better. Maybe the whole jaw-jut idea helps to develop the upper initally, but to get consistent tone and a good quality sound up high, I have to play down a little. Just my two cents.

[John Schmitt]

I tend to play downstream, but it stays consistant throughout the 2 1/2 octave "Arban" range. I've found it's easier to connect the different extremes in register if I keep everything the same all the time. (octave and a half slurs, for example) It's also easier for me to keep the sound consistant across registers when everything's in the same place.

The other thing I like- Since I don't have to really pivot much to get to the C or D, I can easily get another 5th or so on top of it when I do pivot farther down.

edit: I think I'm catching my breath and counting a rest in my avatar. Otherwise it would be downstream.

Edited November 3, 2004 by John Schmitt

[CapRegtrumpet04]

I think that you guys should focus on one thing  Breath Dah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

H*LL YEAH!lolol...best quote in any brass line....

[big phan]

H*LL YEAH!lolol...best quote in any brass line....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah. . .but ya gotta relax first! Relax, Breathe, Dah, and you can make any sound you want.

[Le Trumpet]

I play downstream....I kind wish I could play upstream though, it looks so much cooler!!

[troopmello]

Breathe Dah B*tches, enough said.

[iloveto8va]

UPSTREAM!!!!! I can't pay above a C downstream

[MusicMan1825]

I have never thought about the way my air exits my embosure. My professor talkes about playing "in focus" which means having the maximum efficency of the air stream, and not playing with a stuffy sound. When you are "in focus" your tone has the most resonance, as all of the harmonics of your instrument are vibrating. This is very obvious when playing with a straight mute.