a question for any trumpet/soprano player

[Lukehart]

If you are stating that you think I believe there is an "ideal" embouchure, you are mistaken. Perhaps you should take the time to read the link written about the pivot system provided by BSSop. The "ideal" embouchure is unique to each player and what works for one person may not work for another. In fact, those 2 words should never be used together except in subjective terms.

You seem to be incorrectly stereotyping anybody that talks about the embouchure as somebody who is doing so exclusively for a cheep shot at playing above a high C. Evidence of this train of thought is your rant on mouthpieces and horns, which were not once discussed in this thread.... Nor was I, interested in a miracle embouchure that would make me scream like Maynard.

The very point of this board is to discuss topics brass related.

I replied to Gbass' post not only because he is a good friend, but he seemed to misrepresent himself by seeming to be one of the people looking for a cheep trick. I indirectly pointed out that fact and was the purpose of my reply. I assure you he is quite a talented player who has given his lead chops to pacific crest and scv.

Just as I said earlier about the ideal embouchure being subjective to each player, each musicians learning process is different. Some people may prefer to gain knowledge by playing and learning as they go. Some people prefer doing research themselves. Some prefer to have a teacher provide the information for them. Some talk about experiences with their peers. There is no right way to learn. Some will debate to the bitter end that their learning process is the best. The end result is often identical. The learning process, like the embouchure, is subjective.

You stated that dizzy had no knowledge of his embouchure. You could not be more mistaken and makes my top 10 most naive things seen on dcp. Knowledge is not always conventional. Dizzy understood his embouchure better than any jazz player in his time. Point in case would be made by listening to any dizzy recording. Simply because he may have not been able to articulate his knowledge you should not conclude that it is not there.

You may be successful as a jazz artist with less than spectacular technique for obvious reasons...and history has proven that. Today’s average working musician tends to have a higher demand on versatility. Excellent technique/tone quality ect. is demanded for the majority of gigs... if you are not vestal, that is less work that you will get. If you are not familiar with the concept now, you will be. 99% of musicians today will not have the option of exclusively staying in the niche that they would like. Wayne Bergeron would be an excellent example. His niche would defiantly be playing lead trumpet for contemporary big bands...how many well paying big band gigs are there out there today?...not many...but his chops get him an extremely wide variety of gigs that would not be possible with just average....Small jingles and TV themes are what pay these days. He gets more money for things like Jeopardy and The Dating Game than playing occasional gigs like with the BFB.

I am interested, would you find doing a transcription of one of dizzys solos a waste of time because you are not physically getting any better?

-Lukehart

[fick]

Great topic! I once played lead for Suncoast with excessive pressure and an overbite. I think I played upstream with a downstream fashion? Regardless, trying to pump out to the box in Madison for the first time was #### on the neck and in my last year (94) I started to kick out my lower jaw where my upper and lower teeth were even and tried to play with less pressure. This posture feels much more comfortable.

Since then, I joined and left the Marines, tried to play long tones for a few weeks in 2003 using Claude Gordons Systematic Approach to Daily Practice and have lived in an apartment where I would successfully fumigate my building with my pre-7th-grade sounds that come from my bell. I can hit a G in the staff on the money and a few pedal tones.

My practice equipment consists of an ego-gold 3C and a Mercedes II Bach trumpet. I hope no one pulled a hernia from laughter!

I want to join the Florida Brass Senior DnB Corps but feel I could be a weak link for months. Comments if I should either bust my butt playing long, loud tones with my new(?) emboucher or go back to my old, destructive roots?

Also, any King K20 sops laying around for sale?

Gabriel

Suncoast 91-94

[melligene]

Try blowing into the small end...........and............Practice.....practice.........practice......THERE ARE NO SHORT-CUTS...Geeeeeeez

[Donny Drum Corps]

I believe that it depends on how your teeth are in your mouth. If you have an overbite, it is exteremely difficult to blow upstream by pushing the lower jaw out. At least it has always been for me. If you watch most concert players, it is obvious that the downstream approach is the most comfortable way to play for most people because more people seem to have an overbite.

I have taught trumpet players with an underbite, the lower teeth being in front of the upper teeth, that would obviously prefer an upstream approach to blowing into the horn. But the jaw position should be comfortable in whatever approach you attempt. This is what is most important...to be comfortable in how you play. If it hurts, it is incorrect.

Jaw placement and teeth positioning in your mouth are the biggest reasons to play either way.

Donny

[sunsop65]

To quote an old trumpet teacher,"...you guys think too much, just play the #### thing!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was thinking. When I marched DC 30-some years ago we just played. Period. I have never even heard the expressions "upstream" or "downstream" before! You younger guys are much more technically involved than we were; much more educated. Most of us were guys who simply enjoyed making music - preferably LOUD - and not college music majors.

We played because we enjoyed it, and all the technical stuff wasn't even an issue.

[crownsop04]

Physiologically it makes much more sense to play "down stream". But instead of lowering your horn try extending your neck and tilting your whole head slightly downward. What this is going to achieve is extending and opening your throat so that you may play with a more full and resonant tone. The upper-register will also improve imeadiately. The key is aligning your body to be more resonant and simply relaxing(the better aligned, the less hassle for results). Having said that I must also quote the indisputable brass pedogogy of Donnie VanDoren... as previously stated, "Breathe dah!"

[sopranogurl22]

I'm a straight player for the most part. But I do find I tend to go upstream when I reach for the upper range.

[notasop]

I believe that it depends on how your teeth are in your mouth. If you have an overbite, it is exteremely difficult to blow upstream by pushing the lower jaw out. At least it has always been for me. If you watch most concert players, it is obvious that the downstream approach is the most comfortable way to play for most people because more people seem to have an overbite.

I have taught trumpet players with an underbite, the lower teeth being in front of the upper teeth, that would obviously prefer an upstream approach to blowing into the horn.  But the jaw position should be comfortable in whatever approach you attempt. This is what is most important...to be comfortable in how you play. If it hurts, it is incorrect.

Jaw placement and teeth positioning in your mouth are the biggest reasons to play either way.

Donny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Donny. My sentiments exactly. Everyone is different, so go with what is best for you!

Paul

[Jim Clark]

"There is only one other acceptable theory...

Grip it and rip it."

[cheezedogg 23]

Push hard, and blow harder. Its like the inverse inverse Square. For every pound/inch squared of pressure applied, you must have that amount of air pressure squared, and all problems are solved. This comes from years of research into the performace and rehearsal techniques of the Tastee Bros. :-)