Seattle Review

[SassyMama]

For Kurt - Most of us that know you, know that you have dedicated most of your life to the Cascade organization. Your passion for the corps surpasses most. We the fans of the corps understand the depth of your emotions, and like others that understand the Cascade philosophy it is hard to convey that to someone who hasn't been there.

Now for the rest of the people on here.....

I had asked a moderator in a previously thread to close a discussion because it got personal, and others chose to just open a new thread to continue to discuss it. My grandma once told me and most moms and grandmas often did, "If you can't say something nice about someone or something, then don't say anything at all". Well, what I learned about that is how to use the English language to try and get my point across without being rude but to make sure that those that I feel are out of line totally get my point.

I look at it this way....although the press that the Cascades are getting here on DCP is both positive and negative, at least it is keeping the Cascade name out there and most of the stuff is positive. That puts us up with the big boys my friends in press time. But please remember that the corps kids do read the stuff here, and remember the impact that your words and actions may have on here when those that speak in negative terms about them.

If you don't like the show, then just say, I didn't like the show and be done with it. If someone wants to know more, then tell them they can contact you the reviewers by email or PM.

Kurt, hugs, you know I love all you guys. Keep in touch, you have the cell and email address.

Fran

[Schimmy]

I have only seen the show once. Although I wasn't overly impressed with the performance (it was your second show I believe) I did like the programming. But that is immaterial as well. As a director I get all kinds of input on what kind of show my band (not corps) should be performing. Some like it dark, some like it fun, some like Disney, some want pop. Of course I ignore it all.

When my staff and I design the show we try to come up with a show that we think will be competitive by the group we have to work with and will have enough depth to make it through the season without members losing interest.

After we come up with the theme of the show we start putting together all of the aspects of the show. Hopefully this will involve something new to the activity that my members will enjoy performing and the staff will enjoy creating.

The point of all this is that my staff and I have to design a show that we believe will present the group in the best way possible. It doesn't matter if the audience does not appreciate it. I t doesn't matter to a certain extent if the judges don't appreciate it. The most important thing is that my group appreciates and enjoys it. The funny thing about it is the more your group believes in it the more the crowd usually enjoys it as well.

[bawker]

I have only seen the show once. Although I wasn't overly impressed with the performance (it was your second show I believe) I did like the programming. But that is immaterial as well. As a director I get all kinds of input on what kind of show my band (not corps) should be performing. Some like it dark, some like it fun, some like Disney, some want pop. Of course I ignore it all.

When my staff and I design the show we try to come up with a show that we think will be competitive by the group we have to work with and will have enough depth to make it through the season without members losing interest.

After we come up with the theme of the show we start putting together all of the aspects of the show. Hopefully this will involve something new to the activity that my members will enjoy performing and the staff will enjoy creating.

The point of all this is that my staff and I have to design a show that we believe will present the group in the best way possible. It doesn't matter if the audience does not appreciate it. I t doesn't matter to a certain extent if the judges don't appreciate it. The most important thing is that my group appreciates and enjoys it. The funny thing about it is the more your group believes in it the more the crowd usually enjoys it as well.

The difference of that is your school band could stand for 11 minutes at halftime and play whole note long tones if they wished to. The school funding (while music programs are being cut, of course) is there for the kids, put into a budget. There is no paying audience, or real band "alumni base" to appease, or, as you correctly said, consider.

Many of the drum corps fans and participants have marched or will in the future. Junior drum corps is a very different animal in that regard. No one is there for an easy "A", or a class to slack off in. As a superior product, there is an expectation by the fans and judges to see that commitment show on the field.

Of course you design to your strengths...but in order to continue moving the bus down the road, souvies must sell, interest in the program must be generated and kids must walk through the door each fall. The money must flow along...not from a school board, or a music department...but from an alumni base, and the fans who see you on the road.

The audience doesn't matter? The donations, the "hype"...all of it matters, as it spreads the corps name, its philosophy and most importantly, its fan base (more $).

Even if "fans" can't be considered for entertainments sake, certainly for the sake of the almighty dollar, they can at least be recognized.

[Cardman]

My grandma once told me and most moms and grandmas often did, "If you can't say something nice about someone or something, then don't say anything at all".  Well, what I learned about that is how to use the English language to try and get my point across without being rude but to make sure that those that I feel are out of line totally get my point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

  But please remember that the corps kids do read the stuff here, and remember the impact that your words and actions may have on here when those that speak in negative terms about them. 

If you don't like the show, then just say, I didn't like the show and be done with it.  If someone wants to know more, then tell them they can contact you the reviewers by email or PM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry, but this is a discussion board...The whole point is to DISCUSS. Discuss the good. Discuss the bad. And don't give me that "don't hurt the kid's feelings" stuff. The kids that march corps can take anything that anyone can dish out on this board. We can't "walk on eggshells" verbally just so as not to upset Susie Q or Johnny K...The world has WAY too much "political correctness" in it. We are afraid to say anything about anyone anymore for fear that we may be labeled as "haters" or "bashers".

That being said...You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about using language that does not come off as being rude or offensive. However, you can't avoid offending everyone, as some people are biased (such as yourself, in regards to the Cascades) and some are super-sensitive. STILL, I do think we should TRY to avoid using language that is widely accepted as inappropriate or derogatory. So let's stop being dyslogistic and pejorative (ooh....big words...). :)

The point of all this is that my staff and I have to design a show that we believe will present the group in the best way possible. It doesn't matter if the audience does not appreciate it. I t doesn't matter to a certain extent if the judges don't appreciate it. The most important thing is that my group appreciates and enjoys it. The funny thing about it is the more your group believes in it the more the crowd usually enjoys it as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I see where you are coming from, but as Gawker has pointed out, bands don't generally have a "paying audience" that are there to see just the band. We drumcorps fans DO pay good money to see these shows, so it is in corps' best interest to pay attention to the "pulse" of the fans.

It seems as though crowds are giving the Cascades standing ovations at every contest, so I would say that I can't blame them for "staying the course". I have no personal opinion of the Cascades' show, as I haven't seen it yet. I will reserve final judgement until then... B)

[Ryan H. Turner]

Well, Kurt's answer to all of this sort of sums it folks. If they're getting standing O's at every show, SOMETHING must be right about what they're doing. I have not been able to see them this year, so I, like Jeff Gray above, can't really comment specifically on Cascade's show. From a general standpoint of seeing, ohhhhh, just a FEW shows in my time, that narration during a "marching presentation" to me is not my cup of tea. I have BOA tapes of national caliber bands doing it--I've seen it in my own backyard down here in southern California doing it--and I just think in the general view of things...the big picture if you will...that it "gets in the way". This probably has something to do with the fact that I grew up in the 70's and 80's, marched in 80's drum corps, and sort of can be called (I GUESS...JEEZO) a little stodgy in this viewpoint of anti-narration.

However, like I said, Kurt's answer sums it up nicely. They're getting the standing O's. People DO like it. Heck, I MIGHT even like it if I ever see it (get 'em into semis Kurt!!! I'm rooting for ya!). And Kurt gives us a little reminder about this activity and what it HAS done over the years. He says, "...please let us explore and entertain." I'm wondering if we DIDN'T allow this in the activity, where would we be? I'm not sure. But it's a worthy question, a point to consider, even for "old" guys like me that have a foot in tradition, but continues to peer over the wall into the future.

Bottom line--GOOD LUCK THIS YEAR CASCADES!! I think you all have a great visual designer in Kurt Jull (as I have said before--one of the unsung talents in DCI), and a great organization providing pageantry to the northwest! Keep it going.

Oh yeah...

AND PLAY LOUD!

[drumguy2005]

I'm sorry if anyone is taking my thoughts personal. I meant nothing of that sort. I was simply talking about the design of the show. I can tell, as anyone can,...that this corps if very talented! I'm sure the members are having a blast performing it,...and that's great!

I just know from experience that (as a member) if I was working my butt off all summer and felt good about what I was doing, and the scores never seemed to reflect any of that,...it was very frustrating. I know that we weren't supposed to be all about the numbers and placement,...but it's really hard not to be on some level. It is competitive after all. So, all I'm saying is,...I hope the members of the Cascades have a good summer,...and I just hope that the show design itself does not hold back the members!

I wish everyone the best of luck in the Cascades!

[Feet Guru]

Drumguy, thanks for your honest, non-offensive review

I'll just toss this out there. Does anyone else think that in the winter and spring that there was an enormous amount of "hype" or "buzz", or whatever, on DCP coming from the Cascades fan base? I read DCP quite a bit, and it seemed that there was an awful lot of this from fans, alumni, people who had been to rehearsals, and if I'm not mistaken, some members as well (I had always thought this was a big no-no for most corps so I apologize if I'm wrong). Seattle seemed to be getting the amount of volume usually reserved for BD or Cavs, and it was always "finals, finals, finals".

Well, I have to admit I bought into this a little bit. I saw them in Northern California, expecting to see a finals-caliber corps, and was disappointed in this respect. I tend to agree with what many people have said about it: the performers seem to be doing well, its just that the show isn't that appealing. This may change in the month left of tour, but in my opinion its hard to see how.

Let me clarify one thing: Seattle's show wasn't bad, (at least in my opinion), it just didn't live up to the expectations I had for it, and maybe it was unreasonable to think that it would. It was not an unpleasant experience by any means! Just not up to the hype

I hope everyone involved in that organization has a great summer. Best of luck to them.

[Mike Ferlazzo]

When engaged in debate like this, we need to remember that drum corps -- and the whole marching musical activity as a whole -- is an art form. And like a piece of art, some people are going to look at a certain show and consider it to be brilliant, while others might find it disturbing or even ugly -- particularly something new or "cutting edge." That's the great thing about any art form, it's all about creativity and trying to expand the imagination. Some people are excited about something fresh and innovative that's "out there," while others would prefer a Norman Rockwell. There's no right or wrong answer when it comes to peoples' tastes.

Since drum corps is a competitive activity -- just like art shows -- it's all good as long as they all play by the same rules. Some who have "pushed the envelope" involving those rules have taken the activity in a bold new direction, while others have failed. Ultimately, just like that piece of art on display, the final verdict will be in whether people want to buy it -- and in the case of drum corps, that means whether judges give the group the credit it deserves, the audience appreciates it and helps fund the corps and/or comes back for future shows, and performers and staff continue to join to keep the organization thriving.

But one thing's certain about the most controversial shows -- and I'm going to see one tonight with my first look at the Cadets (other than online, of course) -- they do tend to generate the most discussion. I haven't seen the Cascades yet, but will be seeing them three times before the season's out. And because of all that's now been written, I can't wait to see them so I can make up my own mind on whether I like the direction they've taken, or not.

[coastiemeg]

I was on a guard that was choreographed by Kurt in 2002, and the man is a God where I come from. His ideas for shows are so innovative and fresh, that it's sad to see them not be accepted in their own time. I saw the show on Saturday because I was a volunteer at the show, and I thought it was amazing. It captured futuristic and vintage at the same time, which is really difficult to combine in one show. I like how they didn't choose to go traditional, I applaud them for their efforts and Kurts bravery for coming on here to shed a little light on the matter from the instructional staff's view. It shows that they're not just ignoring what we think or acting like they don't know what people are saying about them. Please, please don't turn this into a personal attack on Kurt, he said he wasn't representing the entire views of the corps, just himself and where he was coming from. I agree with the judge who said, "The world may not be ready for a Cascades like this" (or something to that effect). The folks who've been involved in Drum Corps for a long time may not be ready for such a futuristic show with newer concepts, but maybe that's what Drum Corps needs to pull it into the future. I was up there sitting with the judges during the Cascades show (I ran their tapes and critique forms to the sideline afterwards) and the judges most definitely didn't say any comments like those mentioned here, they were quite the opposite actually. And I know this isn't just about judges, it's about the fans, too, but from the top tier, the fans were the loudest for the Cascades, so that has to say something.

I wasn't going to say anything at first, just stand back and watch the fur fly, but since Kurt came on here and mentioned a few things, I decided to give it a go. I know I haven't been with Drum Corps as long as a lot of you, so feel free to tear me apart for being a "young'un", it wouldn't be the first time a personal attack on a message board has been directed at me, I've got pretty thick skin. The Cascades show is well on it's way this season, so we might as well sit back, relax, and see how well they do at their competitions, there's not a whole lot that can be changed about it by those on the message boards now.

[MusicEducation]

Just because one writes a review on DCP or any forum, doesn't mean that their review has substance. Many people who have composed reviews on here have been great, and have a lot of great feed back for those who were not able to attend. From my experience reviews are generally to give a run down of the show, and when I write, I try to keep my opinions aside, and try to tell the show as I saw it, not what I would have liked to see or what I think should have been performed. Many of the people writing reviews have never judged before, and often times their reviews come off extremely judgemental. A review is just what it is... But there are ways of going about writing them to make them sound as a review, or as a critique, and I feel this particular review was good in some aspects, but did not have enough substance to back up why the poster thought a certain way. If you are going to offer criticism, why not offer some solutions or possible ways to help the "problems"

You can't expect the Seattle Cascades to be the little boys and girls corps that they used to be in Division II and III, they are trying new things now. I agree with Kurt not because he is a designer, but I like what he had to say in general. So a few people don't like this or that about the show, why does it matter? If the majority of the fans are pleased, and the judges think the corps is in the right direction, then the small percentage of fans who dont like can go elsewhere. Every corps can not please each individual who paid. If you didnt like it, you didnt like it, move on, and come back to a later show and see if it tastes better to you.

I get this show, with or without the narraration, and I think the props were utilized great, perhaps it was dirty when YOU saw it, but its obvious there is some built in GE there. Yeah yeah, there was a lot of hype, infact, I dont think this corps got as much hype as their competitors Capital Regiment, but whatever. Who cares if the corps got hype in the off season; they don't have to prove anything to anyone but themselves on the field each night. It's obvious something is working out for Seattle if their scores are increasing... I saw declines at the beg. but I am starting to see a sudden rise... hmmm, poor show design--if that's so, why are the scores showing otherwise? Judges aren't judging narraration, and I dont think they care about who is speaking into the microphone.

Since their entrance into Division I, this corps has gotten a lot of flack from people... and for what reasons I do not know!

Best of luck to Seattle Cascades, as I know they will continue to push hard and rise! They always do, and for the past two seasons, people have been talking about that strong brassline that always seems to pick it up.