Brass Ablaze Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 The thread that Cascade Mama got closed was valid because that thread turned into personal attacks. However, this thread is a different story. Nobody in here is attacking the anyone. The original poster had an opinion. Others are commenting and discussing his opinion. Nobody here hates Kurt. In fact if you read the posts, I think it's pretty unanimous that we all like him and respect him and many of us even think he is very good at what he does. Personally, I think very highly of Kurt and I wouldn't want anyone else in his place. Kurt is a always a positive and fun guy to be around and everyone knows it and he is very talented. But none of that is the issue at hand. The issue at hand is the direction that the design of the show has taken this year. With that said. I'd like to address him again. I realize that the comments and questions of myself and others have put you in an uncomforable position to respond without getting flamed. For that I am sorry, but you are probably right. I do offer you this one thing, however... You have seen what some of the fans here think. You have read the reviews. Surely you were aware of the controversy that would be previlent in certain aspects of the show before you even put it on the field. I think it is a safe bet to say that there are more than a handful of people who are dissapointed with aspects of the design. Lets be honest now, you had to have seen it coming. You know that there are fans that disaprove of certain things. Why go there? Why play with the matches? Certainly their were options to go with a different show design that didn't include some of the highly controversial pieces. Other shows that may have pleased not just the judges but the fans too. Is it an attempt to gain visiblity with the 'no publicity is bad publicity rule'? Now I know that fan applause and ovations have been very positive thus far but please bear in mind someing. I am a fan of the scades whether the they stand there and play scales and 8th note warm ups for the show or whether they play finals worthy material. I am going to stand up and give them an ovation regardless. WHY? Because I enjoy watching them, I have personal ties to them, and I support them for all that they do and all that they stand for and I appreciate the hard work and effort put into the performance. That does NOT mean that I am giving them a standing ovation to approve of that particular show design, narration, etc. So please kurt, do not use that as an indicator. Find out what people really think. Unfortunately many people are too nice in person and may not give their honest opinion in person. But as you said, there is a certain amount of anonymity to these forums so people are more apt to speak their minds. So with that said. I'm sure you read my review, this orignal poster's review, and some of the several other reviews as well. I ask that you ignore the posts from those who say "I havn't seen the show yet but my opinion is" and read again all the posts from those who have seen the show. Some like it, some don't. I think you will find that there is a disturbing amount of fans who disaprove of some things. That should be a sign. When the judge said that the world wasn't ready for this show, maybe he was trying to tell you something in a nice way. So I will give you this thought...You will never be able to please everyone, but perhaps its best to reconsider who you are trying to please. (cough cough judges is the wrong answer cough cough :P ) Thanks for listening Kurt. Hopefully I/we have had SOME impact on you as to what some of the fans think and hopefully you will be open minded enough to not shut out our comments but to really think about it. PS. Someone mentioned that we should provide suggestions instead of just criticisms. I DID do this on another thread. Just wanted to point that out in case your wanting some suggestions. I had a whole post on that. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SassyMama Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 One of the things that I wish is that we can't hide by anonymous handles on/in forums. Most of us on here don't. We share our ups and downs, and some of my best friends I've met here on DCP. The reason I wish it, is because all the discussion that has been going on, the good and the bad, wouldn't be second-guessed. It would offer validity to expression of opinion (good or bad). Just my 2 cents. Without that validity and hiding behind a handle one can start to feel omnipitent (sp - dang I so wish for an dictionary for these forums, lol). With that comes a feeling of power, whether perceived or real. Occasionally I used to visit RAMD and there was a guy on there that used to drive me bonkers. He used his real name - he both praised and drug the Cascades in and out of the gutter with his opinions. I cringed when I read him saying something bad about them, but he at least was strong enough with his convictions to not be anonymous. :ramd: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 one thing you all know is that I am never anonymous... and unlike the closed thread that was quite obnoxious and hurtful to the performers, I have no problem with the discussion going on here... even though I obviously disagree with the original poster... Kurt is an amazing arranger and this years corps is the best Cascade corps ever including the one that made finals in 2002. and to those hiding behind the DCA logo (what's that all about???) do you realize that Kurt Jull is the secret weapon behind Yokohama Inspires? Yup, his design... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 My thing is, the corps can not please everyone. There is no right or wrong answer on who to "please" and I think the Cascades for the most part have done a great job with pleasing their audience. Just because "90%" of the reviews read on here haven't all been nice, doesn't mean anything. DCP isn't even half of the Drum Corps community. There are people out there who don't post on DCP and or just read it. Everyone I have come across, really enjoys this show, and has said amazing things about it, while they have had their questions regarding other areas, they left them as that, they didnt try to pass of their critical analysis as facts, or trying to tell the staff how to run the show. The staff has brains, and will do what is best for the corps. It's obvious they are doing something right if their scores and moral have been improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Really, a straw man argument at best. The addition of valves, the pit and drill all encompassed and updated the idiom as it was: brass, percussion, guard, visual. Narration does not do that... however, it is legal, and you can't be faulted for using what everyone else does. We see it with drill, show selection and other things, so this is more of the same. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Voice, spoken or sung, has been legal for a couple of decades. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Reguarding not trapping drum corps in a museum... I see your point but where do you draw the line? Woodwinds? Synthesizers? Video machines? Fog Machines? Heck, lets just pre record the corp's best standstill and play it back while they march to it. Now I know I am being a little extream or at least it seems so right now. But to me, it just seems like the "line" is getting moved out further and further and we are getting further and further away from the roots that make this activity what it is. I say we draw the line at amplification. That's my take. You disagree, but then again, where do YOU say we draw the line? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO... Drum corps should NEVER draw a line. Part of it's tradition for over 50 years has included expanding the 'possibilities'. Change is part of the roots that make drum corps what it is. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 If you come to a drum corp forum and see 4 or 5 reviews from people who all agree on similar points about the show that are generally disliked in for out of 5 reviews (props, guard uniforms, drill is too crammed, narration bad) then it's probably a pretty safe bet that those things are not liked by a lot of other people as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Disagree. You have to look at each reviewer and see their own biases going in. More here in DCP are anti-amp/narration than pro, so naturally their reviews will follow that line. They do not represent the vast majority of fans at a show, IMO. For me, I am pro-choice on amps and narration and singing...last year I loved Crown and BAC, including the narration/vocals. While I like the Cadets vocal concepts this year, I think the performance needs a bit of tweaking to make it work. I don't care if any corps ever uses narration or singing....IMO they should, as they do, have that option. That is MY bias. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Ablaze Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Disagree. You have to look at each reviewer and see their own biases going in. More here in DCP are anti-amp/narration than pro, so naturally their reviews will follow that line. They do not represent the vast majority of fans at a show, IMO.For me, I am pro-choice on amps and narration and singing...last year I loved Crown and BAC, including the narration/vocals. While I like the Cadets vocal concepts this year, I think the performance needs a bit of tweaking to make it work. I don't care if any corps ever uses narration or singing....IMO they should, as they do, have that option. That is MY bias. Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You differ in your opinion on narration from mine, which is fine. I don't doubt many feel the same as you but I also think that many feel the same as me. The exact percentage of actual fans that agree with it or disagree with is irrelevent but the important thing to note is that there are a lot of supporters on both sides. So my point is, you'd have to be blind to think that a show including narration wouldn't cause some controversy with a large number of fans. Everyone who is involved in an active corp knows about the rule change and the controversy behind it. So why go there? Why knowingly make a show that you know from the start will upset some of the fans, regardless if it's 60% or if its 10%, and cause controversy? None of this would be being discussed if they had choosen a more traditional show design. I know it. You know it. They know it. And to not see it coming is just plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwscv87 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 one thing you all know is that I am never anonymous... and unlike the closed thread that was quite obnoxious and hurtful to the performers, I have no problem with the discussion going on here...even though I obviously disagree with the original poster... Kurt is an amazing arranger and this years corps is the best Cascade corps ever including the one that made finals in 2002. and to those hiding behind the DCA logo (what's that all about???) do you realize that Kurt Jull is the secret weapon behind Yokohama Inspires? Yup, his design... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree that the 2005 Cascades are great and have a lot of potential, but IMHO they have a long way to go before they can earn the "best ever" label. That 2002 corps was great and they earned the right to be called not only the best Cascade corps ever, but the best corps ever produced by the state of WA (or the NW circuit for that matter). The 2005 corps may get there, but IMHO they are not there yet. Although I don't care for the narration, I DO enjoy the package as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspaDave Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 The Narration is sincerely wonderful and is the catalyst for the show.The Narrator is a 19 yr/old theatre kid from the U of W without a lisp and also an amazing percussionist. Kurt, I respect you a lot for what you have done in and for drum corps. In regard to your show this year . . . well . . . I don't like it. All I have is the APD, so I have no take on the visual, but I have formed an opinion on the most contentious issue: the narration. It is very distracting. I also consider it poorly performed, but I am not a theater kid from U of W so what do I know? It's only $1.99 but I wish I could get my money back. I know you well enough to know you are not lying about the crowd response. However, and I hate myself for what I am about to say, I can't help but wonder if you are not imagining more than what is there. Perhaps you want to believe you made the right decisions in the design of your show, and therfore the applause seems louder than it actually is. You know something like the Apple Reality Distortion Field, but applied to drum corps. Regardless of my opinion of your show I wish you the best of luck, and hope to see you in Japan again sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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