Show Design 1978 - 2005 - ?

[JimF-LowBari]

Listened to a friends 1978 DCI CDs and only the second time I have ever heard these shows. (Would have been the first time except we had a rainout and made in home in time to catch it live on PBS.)

What struck me was that every song I heard was very entertaining even without seeing the drill. Even the songs I didn't know (and there were a bunch) had a recognizable melody. Most of the corps still hd their own style of music but a few had themes running thru part of the show. (Blue Stars playing Jewish heritage music comes to mind). And *GASP* none of the shows had a title.

Now of course every show has to have a title of some sort. I'm still trying to figure out why, but todays members say a show HAS to have a title so...... And some of todays music seems to be even more esoteric (IOW - where the #### did they find that song ^0^ ). Plus today corps throw in props and deep hidden meanings in their shows (check out the Cadets threads for that one).

OK, that's a comparison over 27 years. Considering that a corps HAS to have each years show more complex (so I've been told) what is next on the horizon for show design. And heaven forbid the activity doesn't evolve ^0^

While we're chewing on that here's something else to consider. This year a lot of corps didn't have a complete show at the beginning of the season. Biggest reason given was that the shows are more and more complex so more time is needed to get the drill down. Sooooo, if shows get more complex and it takes more time to learn the drill at what point does this problem just implode. IOW - shows get so complex that they cannot be done during the season. Oh yeah, And heaven forbid the activity doesn't evolve ^0^

[geluf]

As a composer, I'm very glad the corps use music that isn't always instantly recognized. What's the point of composing if we just refuse to listen to anything other than what we're comfortable with?

[geluf]

To respond to the incomplete shows, only insome cases was it due to not learning drill fast enough. In some cases (and here, Cap Reg comes to mind) it was not having the drill at all. Cap's drill writter works for more than one corps and Cap was definately 2nd on his agenda. I'm of the opinion that a drill writter should write for 1 corps only, to avoid that kind of situation.

[strutta]

You bring up an interesting point, Brandon.

However, when does the show designer/composer's artistic drive actually jibe with what the fans want to see/hear? It SEEMS many of today's audio and drill designers consider the fans as an afterthought. They simply seem to write for their own satisfaction and for the judges (who tend to be of a similar esoterica).

To Jim's point above, shows from the 70's/early 80's tend to be entertaining and complete on audio. More recent shows that feature 'stop and pop' playing for 8 measures, followed by a percussion/pit response combined with a wild, running horn line drill move, does not give listeners (especially those who have not SEEN the show), any idea of what is being played. That, to me, makes for a much less enjoyable CD listening experience.

[victorcoly]

Let's see?? In 1978 we couldn't ground tympani and mallet instruments. In 1978 most cars guzzled gas, and had huge 4 barrel engines. In 1978, most corps were either playing two valve g bugles, and even some still had piston/rotor horns. In 1978, Chuck Mangione was popular, and many corps played his music even through the mid-1980's. You would be hard-pressed to find any young person eligible to march in a Div I corps who even knows the name Chuck Mangione, let alone any of his music.

What's my point? Times change. People's preferences change, and the activity changed. Let's face it, the legandary George Zingali challenged the activity to go faster, march drills that were very difficult, and designed shows that took things to the next level.... and what happened when he did that? I remember thousand of fans giving standing O's in 1983 when Garfield Cadets did the Z pull..... And then again in when Star of Indiana did eight sets in 24 counts!!

Bottom line.... I still love to hear corps do Mangione music, but I also dig Stan Kenton's "Adventures in Time" (BD & Suncoast!!!). Not to mention the many exciting shows we're seeing this season. Also, we're in the "digital" age, and many people like to remember what they've seen, not only what they've heard. After all, can you remember any music from the movie "Toy Story?" Nope... you remember the amazing computer amination!!! Has anyone seen Phantom of the Opera live?? Not only do you remember the music, but you remember the cool stage effects!!!

I loved 1978, and I loved 1998.... And I also dig 2005!!!

There's my two centavos!!!!

:)

[JimF-LowBari]

After all, can you remember any music from the movie "Toy Story?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Toy Story had music :P

Shoulda explained in my original post this is not meant to be a "which is better" bash thread (see how long that lasts :P ). Just trying to pick a trend for the future.

And geluf - first I heard about CapRegs problem.....

[strutta]

I do not think anyone is disputing that times and activities change, Vic. What I am saying is that change is not ALWAYS better.

If a corps were to do one of the better late 70's/early 80's shows with today's level of instrumentation, execution and players AND there were judges that would appreciate the show for the show and not feel the show had to be of a certain 'modern' type, we might be surprised by the outcome.

The 'problem' is, many of today's junior corps activity participants on all levels have no idea what drum corps used to be. They only know the latest incarnation of (and I don't say this as a slam but to point out the 'evolution') drum and bando corps, as always, IMHO.

[madscout96]

To respond to the incomplete shows, only insome cases was it due to not learning drill fast enough.  In some cases (and here, Cap Reg comes to mind) it was not having the drill at all.  Cap's drill writter works for more than one corps and Cap was definately 2nd on his agenda.  I'm of the opinion that a drill writter should write for 1 corps only, to avoid that kind of situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I go to the Toledo show pretty much every year, it's opening night for pretty much every corps that shows up there, and it upsets me to see how many corps don't have their shows done. CapReg especially this year for the aforementioned reason. I'm just speculating, but their drill not getting done until very late may have ultimately lead to their problems with the guard staff (seeing as guard work can't be written and taught until drill is on the field)

As for show designs nowadays vs. back then... You want recognizeable melodies?? Scouts are playing Carmen and West Side Story. Phantom Regiment is doing Gershwin. Glassmen are doing Dvorak's 9th (with a twist, yes, but still). Cavies are doing recognizable songs about Chicago. Colts are doing "Til There Was You" From Music Man. The list goes on...

The difference is that music and visual are so much more integrated with each other now. Music for shows isn't written without first considering what might happen visually. Visual designs aren't conceived without first thinking about what's happening musically. They go hand in hand, so to hear the music alone without seeing the visual program or at least knowing what's happening visually would make it seem incomplete. Same thing for movie scores, right? You see a movie and you might say, "That was a really good movie". If you heard the soundtrack before you saw the movie, you might not like it, especially if there's not much melody to latch onto. And if the movie had no music, it would probably suck too! Their meant to be seen and heard TOGETHER.

[Matt_S]

Toy Story had music  :P

Shoulda explained in my original post this is not meant to be a "which is better" bash thread (see how long that lasts  :P ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, are you sure that's what you were going for? Your first three paragraphs were all about how it was so much better in 1978. It wasn't until the fourth that you raised the question of what's next, and then in the fifth you launched right back into telling us why today's approach to design might not be so swell. In fact, when I read and clicked on the title of this thread I thought you were going for a "which is better" discussion, because you clearly implied that you preferred 1978 to 2005.

[strutta]

Matt, just because someone has a preference for one era over another does not necessarily mean they are bashing the 'lesser' era.

I WILL own up to the fact that I believe some of the 'creative' changes that have taken place over the years have absolutely sucked; others have enhanced the activity. But the suckiness ones outweigh the improvements, IMHO.

For example, it used to be that hornlines had to play entire tunes and were judged accordingly. Now caorps A can play the same tune as corps B. Corps A may play the vast majority of the tune as it was originally written (on brass instruments). Corps B may choose to start the tune on horns and play the difficult passages or (worse yet) the juicyest power parts, in the pit. Corps A should absolutely trounce corps B in music in such a situation...but that does not happen.

Edited July 29, 2005 by strutta