Murfreesboro

[JMS0527]

While I do think the judges do a great job with what they are given, I think it is the system itself that needs MAJOR tweaking.  Why the heck do there need to be two percussion judges when there is only one brass judge?  Why is "General" effect actually broken down into two SPECIFIC captions?  Why is the caption with the MOST subjectivity allowed the most points?

I'd love to see a system that rewarded as such:

General or Overall Effect:  20 points

Visual:  20 points

Music:  20 points

Brass:  10 points

Percussion: 10 points

M&M: 10 points

Guard: 10 points

Seven judges, saving DCI some money by using one fewer judge, and not unduly overemphasizing one caption by using two judges, even if they do an average.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree about there being only one brass judge but two percussion judges...I don't think that's right regardless of the rationale behind it.

Here's my suggested system:

GE Music: 20 points (10 Rep/10 Show)

GE Visual: 20 points (10 Rep/10 Show)

Field Brass: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Mus)

Ensemble Brass: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Mus)

Field Percussion: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Mus)

Ensemble Percussion: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Mus)

Ensemble Music: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Mus)

Field Visual: 20 points (10 Tech/10 Excl)

Ensemble Visual: 20 points (10 Comp/10 Excl)

Colorguard: 20 points (10 Cont/10 Excl)

We have a judge who's evaluating brass up high, one who's doing the same for percussion. We also need one evaluating the two working together from a performance standpoint...that's the point of having an Ensemble Music judge in my scenario.

Note that everyone carries the same weight...and there are 10 judges (only one more than we have at major shows now)....add them up, divide by 2, then deduct penalties (if any)

Edited July 30, 2005 by sooneralum2001

[bbass74]

Louder is not always better. Loudness can show lack of control or musicality... especially when there is much krassness around.. enough for EVERYONE to have a little piece.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, louder isn't always better. But increased volume can show intensity as well and that can add to the experience. You can't say that hearing PR play amazing Greace when it kicks in high voilume that you don't get goose bumps (if you've ever heard it that is)! And I don't mean just one instrument be louder, I mean increased volume within the entire brass. Guess I'm just use to the G horns that could be louder and still be very good.

[AnaheimAlumni]

is this a full retreat?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was the order they went on?

[bbass74]

What was the order they went on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boston - Crown - Bluecoats - PR - Scouts - BD - Cadets - Cavies

(and I'm gonna keep saying "Cavies", those who don't like it can kiss my white harry butt... "pucker up buttercup"!)

[xrifle]

Jonathan said: "From what I have seen I would give Phantom the edge at this point. The only X factor in all this is the guard. "

"We don't talk about it enough, and I know G would concur with this, but when talking about the big 3 you have to talk about guard. The one consistent factor with these corps is the absolutely incredible performances and design elements of their guards, and the inclusion of all this into the fabric of the total visual and music al program. The challengers have all been good over the years, but they lack a guard with the ability, design, and integration of the Blue Devils (who are the masters), as well as Cadets and Cavaliers. Ultimately, to score higher in GE in all areas you need a guard at that level."

"You have to assume that Phantom can match BD in the performance captions like music and perhaps even the marching captions come finals, but where will BD's guard be by that point? This is a big X factor."

Well said. However, I think that the more important question is where will Regiment's guard be by that point? The ingredients are all there but there is still a tremendous amount of work to do in 2 weeks.

[CadetPhan]

Just got home from Murfreesboro. All I can say is that the Cadets were absolutely AMAZING...I honestly believe this show will win DCI. Wouldn't suprise me either if Phantom "rains out" the Dance Derby this year. ^0^

[kevingamin]

Why do we need scores to be down to the hundredths of a point?  Oh, that's right, we can't have a tie in DCI.  Come finals night how will the activity feel if a corps wins by .005 or .01?  Perhaps it came down to the  math tonight, but how and where can anyone explain the Cavies were 75 hundredths of a point (!) better than Cadets?  If two corps are fit to be tied, then so be it already!  Or do I need some edu-ma-catin'?

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scores were sometimes in the hundredths before DCI, too. It all depends on how the system is set up.

[kevingamin]

And in all truth, these guys and gals are out there seeing and hearing things from their perspective, trying to be unbiased...which is something that almost no one hear can claim.  I can try to be unbiased all I want, but the fact is, I'm always going to root harder for Regiment, G is always going to root harder for Devils, etc.

I agree Nick with your above statement. I think the issue that everyone has with judging is the grave inconsintencies from judge to judge.  A few nights ago Crown received a 17.7 in brass and beat devils with Ken Turner judging, who by the way is the chief brass judge. Not even a week later Jeff Mitchell has Crown at a 16.4.  If brass judges are truly basing their numbers off performance and the Box 1-5 concept there is no way this should happen. I"m not saying Ken Turner got it right and Jeff screwed up... I"m just saying that there is no way that Crown can be top box 4/low box 5 and then be low box 4 a few days later. I just think that as you mention there are biases and too many preconceived notions about a group and where they should be placed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not? If a corps has an off night and turns in a Box 4 performance (and I can't say whether Crown did or not as I wasn't there. This is just a general statement) then they should be given that number.

[kevingamin]

This "box 5," "box 4" bullpoopie....does it really take into account corps having FANTASTIC shows or LOUSY shows from night to night?  I am not so sure it does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's the thing: The boxes each have SPECIFIC criteria which corps must achieve in order to earn a score in that box. If a corps doesn't achieve said criteria that night, they shouldn't get the score that night.

[Tsar Nikk]

Here's the thing:  The boxes each have SPECIFIC criteria which corps must achieve in order to earn a score in that box.  If a corps doesn't achieve said criteria that night, they shouldn't get the score that night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm well aware of what the boxes are SUPPOSED to do. I just don't think it happens with as much regularity as it should.

I remember one performance late in the year in 1993....we had an AWFUL night. I must have seen three dozen mistakes, and made a dozen of my own. And yet, we actually climbed in Field Visual that night, even though the judge was the same as the show before. He SHOULD have nailed us and dropped us out of Box 5. But it didn't happen.

I know what the boxes are for, sheesh.