tired of it all

[MiamiSun76]

This is in no way a generational war. I'm merely stating that, as with most things, with time and change the generational gap takes control of some things. And yes, obviously you have been my age, but you are not my age now. Meaning, as I said in so many analogies, that there are big differences between growing up now and growing up (taking a modest guess seeing as how you said you had a grand daughter) pre 1960s (sorry if i'm off). And yes, your grandchildren might think i'm old, and i can assure you in 10 years when i'm a teacher, teaching children her age, i won't understand or be hip with the trends in their culture. And that's just the nature of things. I mean isnt it crazy how "oldies" radio stations are now playing bon jovi? And for obvious reasons, because thats the music, and part of the culture of that generation!

As much as drum corps has its roots in the older generation, it can't target that audience cause thats not the way it works, its simple marketing. I have nothing against older fans. ####, i love to hear stories from the old days. I think its amazing that when i was 5, i watched, unknowingly, my old marching tech, director, and brass caption all march! One of my favorite personalities in DCI is my old bus driver Ted, who i would sit and talk to on the night bus rides about all the stuff that went down in the 80's in DCI. So, i'm not just some smart ### kid talking hear, i have (at least i hope) a valid argument for our discussion. See i'm calling this a discussion.

The reason i started this thread was to vent a bit, it was because i was getting dragged down by thread after thread of people saying they want nothing to do with Div 1. and you know what thats cool, and this is a discussion board, but being someone who had to miss marching this summer in Div 1 because of monetary issues...... I just think topics like that do nothing but give a negative vibe to DCP. Instead just constructively criticize what you dont like instead of bashing. Maybe that sounds too candy-coated and Miss America like, but that's my thought.

And if you would please MiamiSun76, please do not attack my education in any way. I am a dean's list student at Florida State, majoring in Music Education and Geology. I have in no way insulted you, and i would be more than happy if you would please give me the same respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First off, how can I attack your education. We went to the same institution, and I too graduated with honors (US History). But you've got to admit that the post I responded to had its fair share of typos.

It might also interest you to know that I spent one season in the administration of your corps 25 years ago, where I developed a tremendous respect for Robbie Robinson. I guess that's where I don't get a lot of your logic. Maybe it's because I'm third generation in this activity and grew up admiring my dad and his contemporaries like Robbie. Maybe it's the history background where things evolve and each generation's accomplishments give way to the next. Nonetheless, some of your comments struck me as basically hiking your leg on those who came before you. I couldn't imagine taking that approach to the Harold Robinsons or Bob Erwins of this activity (let alone the late Harvey Ford).

I also take exception to your careless characterization of DCA corps. The "Sun76" part of my screen name is in tribute to my too-short stay with the Sunrisers of that year. I went there because of the history of innovations: 1st female guard members in DCA; 1st playing female in DCA competition; 1st keyboard instruments in DCA (same year as Boston in VFW) and these things were done unilaterally without rule changes. I had the opportunity to play "Procession of the Nobles" in 1976 (a piece Sun had played since 1969). I don't think your image of DCA shows due historical recognition of corps like the Sunrisers, Reading Buccaneers, and many others.

To help with the math, I'm 55. My daughters are 30 and 9.

[Jeff Ream]

So i figured with 6 pages already i'll comment again on what i said in the beginning:

my "just leave already" comment was pointed towards individuals i've seen on here who have said that they never want to go to another Div 1 show again, etc, etc. i just feel that instead of just stating these opinions on here, do something with action and not attend. I believe Lancer Lady even said that its not just going to be a few people leaving but a whole generation of fans. that much of a drop in sales would certainly send more of a message than wasting your breath on here.

But in defense realize this....... That generation of people that were filling both sides of the stands......you're now the generation in charge of DCI, as directors, show designers, captions, techs, etc of these corps that you no longer enjoy!!!! odd situation isnt it?

i know also that this thread has taken a "DCI: love it or leave it" feel and thats wrong. drum corps should be appreciated through and through, and i have no doubt that the talent and dedication of the members is not unnoticed by all of us here. i just think this is something very pure and steadfast it terms of what the members and fans gain out of it, no matter how it changes/evolves whatever.

and in closing, to that older generation (this is not an attack), realize you are just that, the older generation. and despite being a percent of the DCI audience, realize this......DCI is in the future of MY generation, the high school/college age generation. we are the target audience. We are the ones whose children will be marching someday, we are the ones who will be teaching future members, writing the shows, creating the ideas, etc. and realize we are a generation raised with TV, Internet, cell phones, a whole global network basically at our disposal. No longer does the youth have to go to a gallery/textbook to see a picasso, or pull out a 33/cassett to listen to mahlers 2nd. with the touch of a button we have that in front of us!! and so has society changed. in the 50s, TV producers would only show elvis waist up because he was thrusting around on stage, now every rap video has atleast 5 half naked women shaking their #####. 

i think i've used up my anaolgy quota for the summer so i hope you get the point. just realize things are going to change, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT, i'm just saying if you dont and it bothers you that much stop #####ing on here and do something about it, like maybe....leave. ^0^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

here's the thing...i didnt wanna stop going. But I know if i do i'll be ####### miserable.

i'm not old. i'm 36. #### I only ever marched DCA.

but telling those of us to leave is bad form cause it can be misinterpreted.

Remember many of us labeled as old unprogressive fogies are the ones who kept DCI alive in the mid 90's when it was knocking on death's door. Despite all the hype about the band kids, they get cheap seats. they get discounts. we join Friends of DCI.

that means we pay $1000 and pay for tix too. You keep losing these people, and ticket prices will go up further which will only drive more people away.

biting the hand that fed you for years is a dangerous thing.

[Pioneer19]

Instead just constructively criticize what you dont like instead of bashing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, electronic communication makes people courageous—it's a shame they don't put it to better use.

[ekleve]

This post is for the complainers.

I live in Cleveland. A few years ago the Ku Klux Klan were planning on having a rally in downtown Cleveland. The entire city was up in arms about it and thousands of people were demanding they be banned from doing so. The mayor was in a very tough spot. He realized that he could not ban it because the constitution of the United States of America protects our right to public demonstration. The rally happened as scheduled.

Is it right to hold a public hate demonstration on city streets just because you have the constitutional right to do so? I certainly don't think so! This thread displays a similar situation. I've seen quite a few posts say "Who are you to tell me to leave? I have every right to say these things!" Well you know what? I never claimed you had no right to complain, and not many other people have either. After all, there is no rule in the forum guildelines that says complaining about DCI is against the rules. However, just because you're staying within your rights doesn't mean your relentless negativity hasn't become obnoxious. If people are telling you to leave, it's because they're sick of hearing it. And there is no rule in the forum guidelines that states people can't voice that opinion as well. You have the right to complain all you want. We are asking you to stop. Please stop. It has grown tiresome.

I've also seen people in this thread tell us that we don't have to read these threads if we don't like it. It would be really nice to think that would work, but this negativity infiltrates threads that have absolutely nothing to do with amps, narration, or any other subject commonly complained about. There are DCP members with the attitude "IF I'M NOT HAPPY, NOBODY IS HAPPY!!!!"

One thing many of you fail to realize is how insulting you sound to the current DCI generation. Words cannot describe how proud I am of my two years in DCI, and how proud I am of the members that are on tour right now as we speak. When I marched (01-02) I knew I was doing something great. I am so glad I never read these forums back then, because it would have put a huge damper on my pride. I just assumed people loved what we were doing because of how much we loved what we were doing. I never knew that so many of the people I idolized from previous generations looked down their nose at us. We had a saying in the Bluecoats: "We stand on the shoulders of giants." This shows our huge respect for those who came before us. We want you to be proud of us.

I aged out just three years ago. Even in that short ammount of time there have been some major changes. My rookie year in 2001 all but four of the top 12 corps had G hornlines. Now just a few years later we have amped pits and vocals. I tend to be set in my ways, and those changes did not sit well with me. But I realized this year that it really didn't change the activity as much as you people moan about on DCP. Just a few weeks ago I was complaining to my friends that Bb horns sounded thin and quiet. But when I went to the Massillon show last week they were LOUD!!!!! They just don't get loud until they get confident towards the end of the season. But they do get loud! I saw old ladies covering their ears in pain. Now THAT'S drum corps!!! ^0^

There has been a lot of mention about the generation gap. I can safely say that is mostly caused by you, the older generation. You are the ones who constantly insult today's corps and even go as far as to say it is not drum corps anymore. Not drum corps??? How insulting is that? The thing is, 99% of the generational insults come from the 70s and 80s alumni. You very rarely hear today's generation bashing the previous decades. Most of us love old drum corps and are thankful for your hard work to get us where we are today.

I am in my first year of DCA now. I march with Blue Devils vets from the 70s, Phantom Regiment and 27th Lancer vets from the early 80s, Cavaliers and Star vets from the mid 80s, Crossmen vets from the early 90s, etc. I never hear them complain about how much DCI sucks these days. In fact, I love talking to them about their experiences in DCI back in the day. I have so much admiration for them. And trust me when I say that today's kids are busting their keesters harder than ever, the shows are completely amazing, and you should have nothing but admiration for them. Complaining about their shows will only hurt them and take away their credibility. Please understand that. Somebody who knows relatively little about DCI might read some of the garbage on this forum and then never support the activity. That hurts the kids.

If I ever decide I don't like DCI shows anymore (GOD I hope that never happens), I will NOT be on a mission to spread my negativity to others and try to get people to stop going to shows. That's not fair to other people. I marched DCI and enjoyed my 15 minutes of fame. Now it is other people's turn.

[Matt_S]

Well said, Evan. Well said indeed.

I thought these two paragraphs especially beared repeating:

I've also seen people in this thread tell us that we don't have to read these threads if we don't like it.  It would be really nice to think that would work, but this negativity infiltrates threads that have absolutely nothing to do with amps, narration, or any other subject commonly complained about.  There are DCP members with the attitude "IF I'M NOT HAPPY, NOBODY IS HAPPY!!!!"

There has been a lot of mention about the generation gap.  I can safely say that is mostly caused by you, the older generation.  You are the ones who constantly insult today's corps and even go as far as to say it is not drum corps anymore.  Not drum corps???  How insulting is that?  The thing is, 99% of the generational insults come from the 70s and 80s alumni.  You very rarely hear today's generation bashing the previous decades.  Most of us love old drum corps and are thankful for your hard work to get us where we are today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Matt_S]

BreakInRanks:

If it was not for the old fogeys, you would not be enjoying what you see today.

Why don't you some respect for some of the vets, you put their time and energy into what now has become trumpet and drum corps.

CODI

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And if it weren't for the young adults, you wouldn't have any members marching in shows and nobody would be around to carry on the activity that the generation before handed down. Today's youth is equally as vital to the continued existance of drum corps as the previous generation was in its time. So while you demand respect for yesterday's generation, please recognize that today's generation is making at least the same sacrifices of time, money, and effort that were made 10, 20, even 30 years ago. If you can acknowledge that, then perhaps you'll realize that today's marching members deserve the same respect as the previous generations.

And in case you needed to be told, calling it "trumpet and drum corps" is not a very smart way of showing respect. You might want to start working on showing respect, before you demand it from someone else.

[Bob Brady]

And if it weren't for the young adults, you wouldn't have any members marching in shows and nobody would be around to carry on the activity that the generation before handed down.  Today's youth is equally as vital to the continued existance of drum corps as the previous generation was in its time.  So while you demand respect for yesterday's generation, please recognize that today's generation is making at least the same sacrifices of time, money, and effort that were made 10, 20, even 30 years ago.  If you can acknowledge that, then perhaps you'll realize that today's marching members deserve the same respect as the previous generations.

And in case you needed to be told, calling it "trumpet and drum corps" is not a very smart way of showing respect.  You might want to start working on showing respect, before you demand it from someone else. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think He's just calling it what it is!

If the corps are now using "Trumpets" and "Tubas", Then I guess it really IS "Trumpet and Drum Corps" isn't it?!

Ya can't have it BOTH ways folks!!

To steal a tag from Rocketman:

Bob Brady-Advocate for truth in advertising

Edited August 5, 2005 by Bob Brady

[MikeD]

BreakInRanks:

If it was not for the old fogeys, you would not be enjoying what you see today.

Why don't you some respect for some of the vets, you put their time and energy into what now has become trumpet and drum corps.

CODI

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the disdain you seem to show for the current activity makes that request kind of odd. Why should someone from the current generation show respect for people they think are not showing THEM that same level of respect back?

Respect is earned...it's not an automatic "given", IMO. Us oldtimers are not due respect just because we are oldtimers. It's how we treat those who are marching in the current era that counts, IMO again.

Mike

[MikeD]

I have nothing against older fans. ####, i love to hear stories from the old days. I think its amazing that when i was 5, i watched, unknowingly, my old marching tech, director, and brass caption all march! One of my favorite personalities in DCI is my old bus driver Ted, who i would sit and talk to on the night bus rides about all the stuff that went down in the 80's in DCI.

Hey bones....you are making me cry....your idea of 'old' is a decade or more AFTER I stopped marching. :P

And if you would please MiamiSun76, please do not attack my education in any way. I am a dean's list student at Florida State, majoring in Music Education and Geology. I have in no way insulted you, and i would be more than happy if you would please give me the same respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if we find rocks in anyones head around here, we'll know who to ask what kind they are...igneous, metamorphic or sedimentary. :P

Mike, feeling older than the rocks you study, day by day :)

[MikeD]

I also take exception to your careless characterization of DCA corps. The "Sun76" part of my screen name is in tribute to my too-short stay with the Sunrisers of that year. I went there because of the history of innovations: 1st female guard members in DCA; 1st playing female in DCA competition; 1st keyboard instruments in DCA (same year as Boston in VFW) and these things were done unilaterally without rule changes. I had the opportunity to play "Procession of the Nobles" in 1976 (a piece Sun had played since 1969). I don't think your image of DCA shows due historical recognition of corps like the Sunrisers, Reading Buccaneers, and many others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember back in the 70's when the Sunrisers were disparagingly called a 'DCI' corps by some of the older DCA folks, due to the many innovations and types of shows they produced. They were amazing back then, IMO. My guard person (when I was a band director) marched Sun for years.

Mike