Had the top 5 DII/III been in Quarterfinals

[Lancerlady]

II/III brings a fraction of the profit to DCI that Div. I does.  DCI spends just about that fraction, if not more, on II/III.  You can't expect DCI to pay huge sums of money to II/III corps that don't make them nearly as much money.

DCI is a business, and we can't expect them to run it any other way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Ryan, saw the Raiders! Loved you guys! Congratulations on your achievements. I was so impressed you marched your show without a drum major. Awesome!

It is my hope that DCI will begin promoting and working more with division 2/3 and including them in more division 1 shows. I think if DCI would promote more division 2/3 that it's not a bad thing to go there, if the kids who try out for division 1 don't make it, then they could bring in more money.

I enjoyed the division 2/3 shows this year. All were great in my book. And I will be going to see division 2/3 shows next year if they are around my neighborhood. That's what I'm supporting next year. :)

[Lancerlady]

As for quality products, that changes from year to year.  Usually, the top few Div. II corps are of comparable quality to bottom Div. I corps.  Sometimes, they're a little below that level.

Either way, you can't say objectively that Div. II puts out a better product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't sell yourself short, I know the quality I saw and I can objectivly say IMHO most of the division 2 corps could hang with the division 1 guys. :) 17th down anyway..

Edited August 20, 2005 by Lancerlady

[Orpheus]

II/III brings a fraction of the profit to DCI that Div. I does.  DCI spends just about that fraction, if not more, on II/III.  You can't expect DCI to pay huge sums of money to II/III corps that don't make them nearly as much money.

DCI is a business, and we can't expect them to run it any other way.

Of course, it's not the bottom five D1 corps that bring in all that money, it's more like the top ten to fifteen, right? And six or so particular corps most especially. You shouldn't limit a corps' ability to compete simply because of how big an audience draw they are. Yes, DCI is a business, but it's also supposed to be (among other things) a competitive youth activity. Nobody is asking for huge sums of money, anyway ... just the opportunity to be adjudicated directly against one another. And yes, there've been plenty of occasions, Magic '02 aside, where the top corps in D2/3 very much out-performed some of the corps around the bottom reaches of the top-21/25. Used to be they had a chance to prove it.

[EKBari]

Of course, it's not the bottom five D1 corps that bring in all that money, it's more like the top ten to fifteen, right?  And six or so particular corps most especially.  You shouldn't limit a corps' ability to compete simply because of how big an audience draw they are.  Yes, DCI is a business, but it's also supposed to be (among other things) a competitive youth activity.  Nobody is asking for huge sums of money, anyway ... just the opportunity to be adjudicated directly against one another.  And yes, there've been plenty of occasions, Magic '02 aside, where the top corps in D2/3 very much out-performed some of the corps around the bottom reaches of the top-21/25.  Used to be they had a chance to prove it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DCI isn't the one to go to. The D2/3 directors come up with the format for their finals week. Obviously, they feel this is better for their corps, along with the scoring system (which I still can't grasp).

Also, DCI doesn't MAKE anybody compete in D2. If you want to see them compete with the D1 corps on a regular basis, then they can move up to Regional D1 status and still compete int he same amount of shows they are in now..

[PeeJay]

Perhaps folks are just afraid of another "Magic" type experience taking place again...although I can't imagine why.

Competition is what the activity thrives on. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. Although I did not see the corps I actually think that for Pioneer, Troopers, Kiwanis, The Magic, Esperanza, etc. it would have been really good to have Blue Stars, Spartans and ECJ as direct competitors. For those 3 it would have actually been good too. I mean Divisional choice is a financial choice and a choice in philosophy, it's not directly a choice in quality.....

So bring 'em on I would say. And it is not an embarrassment for a Division I corps to be beaten by a Division II corps. We all know why the corps are where they are.

[snare88]

yeah i don't understand how you go on tour all summer and you work your ### off and still manage not to be amazing by the end of tour....i don't understand why after some point the quality level in div drops off a lot....if these lower end div 1 drum corps are affraid of loosing money at the end of the summer by loosing to the div 2 corps...then step it up and be a div 1 corps that pushes the limits of their kids....because i seen a lot of the lower end d 1's and it was far from impressive....the difficulty level was not high...so i don't understand why they don't do something about it when they know they are consistently in the bottom of their division.

[DCIAGEOUT]

I think that East Coast Jazz, Spartans and Blue Stars would have done some damage in prelims. The top two had a shot at breaking into semis. I think they should have them in there like they used to. It would have made prelims a lot more interesting.

[Tony L.]

Well, as far as the scheduling goes, next year would be the perfect chance to bring the D2/D3 kids back into the mix at quarters. According to the schedule posted at DCI.org, all events will be at Camp Randall, therefore, there will not be the same conflict in schedule that has existed the past few years.

If DCI is at all serious about growing the activity, then the D2/D3 corps must be given more exposure in order to get the fans and more importantly, the potential members, to see all of the good things that are going on with these corps.

I know that until I went to D2/D3 Finals in 2002 in Madison (BTW, one of the best contests I'd ever attended), I had never been to a D2/D3 contest. My only exosure to most of these corps was at Quarterfinals. DCI really should give them a chance. Otherwise, I really just don't see too many corps moving up to D1.

[asvab]

Very unclassy thing to say and since they didn't go and compete head to head that night (or any other night, if I recall correctly),  impossible for you to support any kind of claim of superiority.

Doesn't make for giving a good impression of your corps when you say things like that, either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh brother, the drama. I think most of us are quite capable as taking his statement as his own without letting it impact our impression of the Santa Clara Vanguard.

Regarding the statement, yes, there is plenty of evidence that the Academy were superior to every other Div II corps. Look at their spreads versus the Fever and look at how well Fever did. Of course it is not an exact science, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. It is fun to speculate, no?

As far as the "it was a crime" statement, I'd prefer to call it sound financial management, and I applaud the Academy management for building the program over time. We will see them at nats soon enough (2006?), and when we do they will knock our socks off.

[liebot]

Oh brother, the drama.  I think most of us are quite capable as taking his statement as his own without letting it impact our impression of the Santa Clara Vanguard.

Regarding the statement, yes, there is plenty of evidence that the Academy were superior to every other Div II corps.  Look at their spreads versus the Fever and look at how well Fever did.  Of course it is not an exact science, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it.  It is fun to speculate, no?

As far as the "it was a crime" statement, I'd prefer to call it sound financial management, and I applaud the Academy management for building the program over time.  We will see them at nats soon enough (2006?), and when we do they will knock our socks off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Early season spreads change quite a bit over the course of the season as certain shows peak and certain shows continue to develop and get cleaner.

The Oregon Crusaders had one of the weirdest years ever as far as spreads are concerned, starting their first show of the season with a 58, jumping ten points two days later to being a 1/2 point behind fever, to being 5 points behind them the next night, to being a point behind blue stars and beating fever by a point to at finals being 5 points behind blue stars and 4 points behind fever. Weird stuff like that happens (and i say that as someone who is not a member of OC or any of the corps i just mentioned). Early season spreads change - it's impossible to know whether or not academy would've dominated like everyone says they would have.