A Prelude to the ESPN2 Braodcast

[CVQuesty]

I have to agree with Geoff.

NO training I received in College or High School would've prepared me for what kids are doing on the field today.

While both schools had impeccable programs, you just cannot match a large college band's fundamentals program (for example) to that of the Cadets or Cavliers or BD et. al.

My high school, while good, just didn't have the program to put me into a Div I.

I'm happy there are many more BOA and TOB schools out there, but for every school that participates in one of the big circuits out there, how many hundreds more exist that go to a marching festival or two, and don't compete on that level?

I think your argument kind of lives in a competitive band vacum, and doesn't take into account the many thousands of band programs out there, or the many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of kids involved at various levels throughout the country.

I mean, I was first chair All-State in 1984-1985 and First Chair Ark-La-Tex the same school year, yet my school didn't compete at BOA, TOB, or any other such competitions. We went to district marching festival (All I's) and SLU's marching festival in Hammond, and that was the marching year.

My point is simple. If Phantom turned away 350 sops from auditions (just an example... I don't know the actual numbers), I can't imagine that your premise is 100% accurate that they are *ALL* getting their competitive itch scratched in high school and not marching because their first choice turned them down. Now, multiply that by lets say the top 6, add all sections turning all kids away, and you have thousands turned away that don't march. That, IMO, is the shame.

[Orpheus]

I was sort of thinking something similar ... how many corps members actually come from "top-level high school programs" and how many from ones that are just "pretty good" or even "mediocre?" Mine was okay, better than many, but we didn't compete on a national level or anything. Most of the people I know personally who have marched in the upper echelons of DCI didn't come from super-great high school bands. They all had fairly good foundations in music, but nothing out of the ordinary. Of course, being from a state without many top-quality high school music programs, the guys I know don't really make for a representative sample.

Edited September 12, 2005 by Orpheus

[Matt_S]

No, not everyone comes from a competitive band. But some do. Just as how some get cut from their first choice and do go march somewhere else. Assuming that, of those cut from Phantom, none ended up marching anywhere else is just as much a blanket statement (and therefore just as inaccurate) as the scenario I depicted.

The fact is, we're dealing with a combination of variables. Certainly each of us can find members to support the situation we are presenting. With that in mind, it seems the conclusion to draw is that any solution regarding membership is going to have to cover more than just one situation.

[MikeD]

Which, unfortunately, is a cause of demise of smaller corps, or at least their hurt for membership.  These kids go to one of the top, and are told they don't have (insert skill or attitude here) to march Corps X, and instead of going somewhere for a year in the lower Div I, Div II/III, All age, or even parade corps ranks to get their chops up and try again, they just don't march. 

I don't know whether to call that just a shame or arrogant, but it's definitely one (or both) of the two.

You have to learn at some point that you don't always get what you want because there's those out there who are better than you, have a better attitude than you, or whatever.  Instead of taking that as a cue to just not do anything, it should light a fire under you to do everything you can to gain the chops to step up to the plate, spend some time training yourself somewhere other than your first choice corps, and then go back at it.

The crime here is in the fact that kids would rather not march at all than march at less than their first choice corps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is that a 'crime'? I too wish more kids would/could choose to march in a div II/III corps if they get cut from their dream div I corps. But...it's their own time and money to be involved...and the ROI on a "lesser" corps in their eyes is just not there to justify the expense and lost opportunity to earn $$$ by working a job...or the chance to attend a summer music (or non-music) camp.

It's certainly not, IMO, arrogant...even for kids from average competitive or just slightly competitive bands. In their case, they DO get their basic performance "fix" from the band experience, and look at drum corps as they look at all-state band..."If I make it, great, if not...oh, well."

Let's assume for a minute that the kids we are talking about are in a div II/III corps...they try out for their favorite div I and area cut...so they decide to stay in their div II/III corps. I'm sure you'd be extolling their virtues for doing so. Why is it any different to be part of a HS or college band...try out for a favorite corps...get cut...and decide to stay in their band? You say they are not marching at all...they are...in their band programs.

Think about this...I've seen estimates that there were something like 440 drum corps nationwide at it's peak, 1971'ish era. Let's assume the average membership level was between 50 and 60 kids....22-26K total kids marching in drum corps at a variety of levels (not sure if that 440 number is just competitive or also parade level).

How many competitive bands are there nationwide? TOB alone, a local circuit...has something like 600 or 700. USSBA another 300-400. And that is just two local circuits. Let's say between those two and NYSFBC, PIMBA, Cavalcade, MAC, Mass circuit...there are over 1,000 bands competing in just the northeast. Using the same 50-60 size number, we're talking 50K-60K kids in just this area.

Yes, it would be great if every div I, II, and III corps could march full...but IMO it's not 'arrogant' if some choose to not march when they get cut from the corps of theuir dreams.

Mike

[MikeD]

It's not even that, though, man ... gaining experience, I mean.  It's that they don't seem to think that marching someplace other than their first choice is even worthwhile, and that's sad.  As if they don't realize that marching D2/3 or lower tier D1 would be just as much fun and just as rewarding as marching in a finalist-caliber corps.  It's a question of priorities.  What does the individual in question hope to get from marching corps and why does he or she think whatever it is can only be gotten out of a finalist-caliber D1 unit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marching in a div II/III corps requires that the person live within a relatively easy commute of such a corps. Unlike the touring corps where it makes no difference at all where you live, those corps are closer to the old 'weekend' model of my GSC days. That factor alone closes off many kids who are cut from their div I corps.

BTW....

I know I'd never had marched in a different GSC corps than I did if I had to drive two hours or more to do so, back in my day. But I did drive that far to march with Garfield.

That is just human nature, IMO. People will make more of an effort/sacrifice to be part of the very best as opposed to being part of an average group, in many activities. Look at, say, all state band...kids will drive all over the state to belong to that group...if that band was of lower qualithy than the one at their HS, I bet most wouldn't bother. Kids love to be part of travel soccer teams in my area...and end up driving all over the place to compete in tournaments...all while there is a thriving rec soccer league in town.

Mike