Finals Placement as an Overall Goal

[glory]

What if Jeff Fiedler had stuck to his guns and not implemented anything in his corps that he didn't vote for?  The Cavaliers would not be tastefully amping their pit (by "tastefully" I mean no stupid amped vocals), and they may still be playing on G horns.  As much as I'd like to believe it, I don't think they'd be near the top from year to year if they had stayed a vintage 1999 drum corps.

I'm going to be careful here because I don't want to start a needless, repetitive discussion about amps which all of us know is unnecessary and unwanted.

How does "stuck to his guns" relate to Fiedler meeting his objectives as corps director? His job, put simply, is to maximize the summer for the corps. That means giving the members a great experience and putting out the best performance they and their staff can muster. His personal agenda - if he had one at all - isn't part of the job. Are we agreeing or disagreeing on this point?

HH

[Matt_S]

Whenever you compete your goal should be to win. It's really as simple as that.

True, they can't control what the other corps are accomplishment, but that's the nature of competition. The business can't control what it's competitors do. The sports team can't control how big and fast and strong it's opponent is

But as madscout96 said, that doesn't mean you can't shape your own fate. If the Blue Devils, Cavaliers, and Cadets have managed to build corps that are better, faster, stronger year after year, there's absolutely no reason to think that Santa Clara can't do the same. After all, this is possibly the most storied franchise in drum corps history. And if they participate in a competitive activity, they are obligated to do whatever they can to win.

If that sounds unpure to you, keep in mind that no corps has ever won without performing to the best of their abilities. If the education and training of the kids is your top priority, that's fine, because the two are not exclusive. If you place your corps in contention for a championship, you've already accomplished the goals of education, training, and I daresay you've provided a positive life-changing experience to your members as well.

With all that in mind, yes, competitive success needs to be a goal. I'd even argue that they should be striving higher than top five, say top three or even winning a championship in the next few years. This is SCV, after all.

[Medeabrass]

I completely agree

True also. But this thought just occured to me. (and I'm not talking about SCV because I have no idea how they operate on this level)  Aren't there some corps that delegate the management of the design and instructional team to a Program Coordinator?  Does that take the Corps Director out of the responsibility loop for the field show to some degree? (I really don't know the answer. But I'm curious.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it still holds true in this case. In my opinion, the main responsibility of the Corps Director is to maintain the financial health of the organization. This is especially so when they delegate to the Program Coordinator. I think there is a very strong link between the financial standing of a corps and where it places. The more money you have, the better instructors you can get and keep over the long term.

[abgiles]

i agree that the system has changed considerably since i marched, which was 1981-82. you make a good point about the staff taking the burden of scores and placement. i can't speak for what other corps held out as their goals or if they were out there to win. then and now, every corps has its own mission, and each member has his/her reason for marching. i can only speak from my corps and myself.

When exactly did you march?  I'm interested to know because perhaps more corps back in your era were "out there to win"?  I just get the impression that because of the judging system now vs. 20 years ago (not sure if that's you), more staffs are taking the burden of worrying about scores and placements off of the members' shoulders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[George]

bump

[RLamb]

At the Division 1 level, isn't the corp director basically like the General Manager

of professional sports team. The GM's job is to put the pieces together with the

goal of coming as close to championship level as possible.

The GM (or the Head Coach) cannot use the excuse that "they can't control what

the competition does". If they do, they probably aren't going to be around very

long.

DCI, especially at the Division 1 level, is about competition. I know that most

corps do NOT preach placement or scores, but we all know it's there whether

it's talked about or not. Almost all of the corps made changes (some major)

in their shows this year. Anyone who says the reason for those changes weren't

about improving the score and the finals placement may be fooling

themselves.

Yes, it is possible to have a successful year without being the champion, but

I would say there's also different levels of success and for a corps with the

reputation of SCV, success includes being in the top 5.

I say BRAVO to the Board of Directors for making this clear.

[Phantombari1]

At the Division 1 level, isn't the corp director basically like the General Manager

of professional sports team.  The GM's job is to put the pieces together with the

goal of coming as close to championship level as possible. 

The GM (or the Head Coach) cannot use the excuse that "they can't control what

the competition does".  If they do, they probably aren't going to be around very

long.

DCI, especially at the Division 1 level, is about competition.  I know that most

corps do NOT preach placement or scores, but we all know it's there whether

it's talked about or not.  Almost all of the corps made changes (some major)

in their shows this year.  Anyone who says the reason for those changes weren't

about improving the score and the finals placement may be fooling

themselves.

Yes, it is possible to have a successful year without being the champion, but

I would say there's also different levels of success and for a corps with the

reputation of SCV, success includes being in the top 5.

I say BRAVO to the Board of Directors for making this clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I said that already but I like your thinking!

[^Michael^]

(third point of director's Management Responsiblities)

-Ensure that the Santa Clara Vanguard drum corps maintains its highly competitive placing with Drum Corps International by placing withing the top 12 at the annual DCI World Championship Finals.  The goal is top 5.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one responsibilty in a list of nine Management Responsibilities, plus responsibilities in other areas, including: 4 for Tour, 7 for Communication, and 4 for Fiscal Management.

I don't know how the SCV BoD operates, but I would venture to say that if an SCV Director missed finals due to unforseen circumstances (incredibly strong competition, rebuilding season, etc.), but met or exceeded all of the other noted expectations - I think that a reasonable board or review committee would have to consider that the overall job performance was good (or better).

And the Top 5 reference is a goal. Desired - yes. But not stated as an expectation of the job.

We (the collective we) may be reading too much into that particular excerpt from the job description. There is no special emphasis or evident priority on this bullet point relative to the other stated responsibilities.

Until the specific expectations are addressed in an interview setting or otherwise outlined with priority or weighted value in writing - I take the document, as written, at face value.

We can speculate all day long - and will (it's human nature), but unless and until someone with direct knowledge of the SCV position and the hiring/review process offers relevant details - it's just that - speculation.

Respectfully,

Michael Terry (the elder)

edited to correct typos

Edited August 31, 2005 by ^Michael^

[Slow Adam]

lol

(wait, are you serious?  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since you've only been marching since 2002, you may only know J.W. as the Division II/III contest coordinator, but he was Vanguard's director after Len Kruzecki, and before Rick Valezuela.

[ssorrell]

Many good points, Steve!

You are right..we are a competitive actvity..but can a staff control how good the other teams are?  Lets say that their corps is cleaner, more talented and has a better show, but falls in placement because corps B really stepped it up this year..

I would expect and paid staff to strive for competitive excellence, but the mission of any corps (at least on the DCI level) including SCV, is to be a positive and educational experience for youth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Corps in Division 2 or 3 give their members a positive and educational experience, so that is not exclusive to Div 1 or the top 5.

No...you can't control the other "teams". But every corps has their expectations as to what they should expect when competition starts. Blue Devils, Cadets, and Cavies have been the top 3 for more years than I care to count. If they suddenly fell out of their "acceptable" limits (say out of the top 5 for example), then I'm sure they'd do a lot of scrutinization within their respective organizations (and I'd be willing to bet that is going on to some degree at BD as we participate in this discussion, as 4th place is not within their usual ranking). If they define obvious weaknesses, changes are made.