madscout96 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 But they are still on the payroll, and this is the point I am trying to make, use less instructors and keep some of the cost down. They're on the payroll, yes, but I would hope that a tech that's on tour 3 weeks out of the summer doesn't get nearly the pay recieved by the tech who is on tour the whole summer. That right there would hopefull keep the cost from going higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George82 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 But they are still on the payroll, and this is the point I am trying to make, use less instructors and keep some of the cost down. What makes you think the entire instructional staff is on payroll???? There are a great number of instructors out there who are strictly volunteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukehart Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Personally, I do not like the approach of having more staff members than you know what to do with. Some people actually take the approach of "the more the better" and focus on the staff members name recognition rather than hiring dedicated staff members that will be there every rehearsal. I believe that a having a different staff member coming in for a few hours every so often is an inefficient use of time and money regardless of what section or skill they are teaching. I believe to maximize a teacher’s effectiveness, he must be there long enough to start developing a relationship with the students. It is my opinion that knowing both the person behind the instrument/flag/saber along with the student’s performance strength and weakness with provide you with far greater success both on and off the field. It allows both the student and teacher to go through the corps experience together and learn from one another. Imagine going to high school and having a different teacher in the class every day. Would you learn? Sure. Would you really care that the class was over and remember it when you are 40 years old reminiscing about your favorite class in High School? Probably not....Now think of your favorite teacher from High School...for many of us, this was your band director but it doesn’t really matter who. Why were they your favorite teacher? I would venture to guess it was because they cared....because they helped you through hard times...because they were articulate and knowledgeable....Imagine only having that teacher teaching the class 10-15% of the time...do you still think it would have been the same experience and learned as much? My approach is hiring a few dedicated and skilled people with ability to teach multiple aspects of the corps. Getting a skilled/reputable staff member to show up for 95% of rehearsals is simple. It requires that you pay them accordingly. You can not give 30 people peanuts for the season and expect them to cancel their commitments to get paid next to nothing. Many people DO hold their staff to this expectation, and it is not fair. I’m sure there would be people that would/currently do this for next to free because they love what they do, but as management it is not only good for the activity as a whole that your staff is well compensated, but good for the corps. There are exceptions to what I am saying, such as tightly nit volunteer corps...but as soon as the staff beings branch out of the family so to speak...those people need to be compensated appropriately... Spending more money on less staff is not the current accepted practice in the DCI world so I expect to be flamed....flame away -Lukehart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornlineDiva Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 (edited) I think you're exaggerating a little.... although, maybe other corps do things differently. But as far as my experience goes, it's not as if there's a new tech every day... in my corps, staffers get a roughly week's worth of vacation, and those vacations are scheduled so they're not all on the same week (whenever possible). Sometimes there will be a handful gone at one time, and that is when sometimes a "backup" will be brought in to help even the workload. Usually those people aren't on the payroll. You make it seem like there are dozens upon dozens of staffers, and the experience is impersonal, and the staffers are constantly rotating. That is far from the case, I assure you. I have never heard of a situation like that. I am still friends with many techs from when I marched. They have to leave for a week or so.... they have real jobs. They have band camps to teach. Where are you getting these staffers with the ability to teach multiple aspects of the corps? We're not all SCV and Cavies... not every corps gets boatloads of applications to teach, and not many of the applicants are necessarily qualified to tech both music and visual. And how could the corps with less staff compete with the corps who has the usual amount? It's already been said.... more staff = cleaner corps. You can clean 10 things at once. You can clean visual and music at the same time. It's just more rehearsal-efficient. Edited September 27, 2005 by HornlineDiva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumlinetchr Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 I don't think he is exaggerating at all, Director Brass Caption Head Trumpet Tech Mello Tech Bari/Euph Tech Contra Tech Percussion Caption Head Snare tech Tenor tech Bass tech Cymbal tech (if cymbal line exists) 1-2 Front ensemble techs Visual Caption Head trumpet vis tech Mello vis tech Bari/euph vis tech contra vis tech battery vis tech Guard Caption head usually 3-4 others that specialize in various equipment looks like roughly 24 for BARE minimum in a div 1 size corps 24 instructors!!!! I have been out of corps for about 20 years, I'm assuming the visual tech means drill??? so each section has a minimum of 3 instructors?? I understand that a lot of work is put into division I shows but I still can't understand the consept of 24 people putting a show together. No wonder the cost of operating a corps is so high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 For a full-size corps, you need that many staff members. That's a lot of people on the field; and one or two people for each division of the corps just isn't enough to keep track of all the issues the corps will have to work on through the season. Few smaller corps are going to have that many staff members; usually you'll find a couple brass guys, two or three drum guys and a pit instructor, a couple guard instructors, a visual caption head and two or three visual techs. There isn't as much room for specialization in those staffs, but they also don't have as many people to keep track of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I don't think he is exaggerating at all,Director Brass Caption Head Trumpet Tech Mello Tech Bari/Euph Tech Contra Tech Percussion Caption Head Snare tech Tenor tech Bass tech Cymbal tech (if cymbal line exists) 1-2 Front ensemble techs Visual Caption Head trumpet vis tech Mello vis tech Bari/euph vis tech contra vis tech battery vis tech Guard Caption head usually 3-4 others that specialize in various equipment looks like roughly 24 for BARE minimum in a div 1 size corps 24 instructors!!!! I have been out of corps for about 20 years, I'm assuming the visual tech means drill??? so each section has a minimum of 3 instructors?? I understand that a lot of work is put into division I shows but I still can't understand the consept of 24 people putting a show together. No wonder the cost of operating a corps is so high. You left out the arrangers. OTOH, if you look at what many of the tech folks are being paid, it's a pittance, from what I've read here and in other places (and sometimes NO pay). But yes, overall it IS expensive. And...it's up to each corps to decide where their $$$ are spent, not us in DCP. I think the members who have access to such dedicated staff benefit from that concentrated teaching, so if the corps can afford it, great. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I don't think he is exaggerating at all,Director Brass Caption Head Trumpet Tech Mello Tech Bari/Euph Tech Contra Tech Percussion Caption Head Snare tech Tenor tech Bass tech Cymbal tech (if cymbal line exists) 1-2 Front ensemble techs Visual Caption Head trumpet vis tech Mello vis tech Bari/euph vis tech contra vis tech battery vis tech Guard Caption head usually 3-4 others that specialize in various equipment looks like roughly 24 for BARE minimum in a div 1 size corps 24 instructors!!!! I have been out of corps for about 20 years, I'm assuming the visual tech means drill??? so each section has a minimum of 3 instructors?? I understand that a lot of work is put into division I shows but I still can't understand the consept of 24 people putting a show together. No wonder the cost of operating a corps is so high. You left out the arrangers. Yes don't forget: Brass Arranger Battery/Pit arranger OR these are two separate people Guard designer Drill designer Program Coordinator (if not the same person as the director) Sometimes the design staff also is a caption head or tech, but even if that's the case, designing comes separately and is usually paid for separately. Also, lots of div. I corps have managerial-type staff that don't have very much at all to do with what the corps does on the field. Tour director, and people like that. Some corps pay their drivers (which isn't a bad idea, seeing as the entire corps family entrusts their lives to these people when they're sleeping at 55 mph in the middle of the night). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 (edited) Interesting discussion. Having a number of years experience at all levels of Drum Corps, a staff numbering in the 20's is about right for a group that wishes to contend for the top spot. Smaller staffs can be effective only if everyone is strong. When I taught SCV, we had a full staff, but less than a dozen on the road. But we worked or tails off. I was the only brass guy on the full tour in '87 and '88, and it was rough. Fun to go into ciritiques and be the only one-person horn staff, though! Here's another way to look at it - if you break into sectionals, you need someone to teach the sections. That means 5 drum guys (unless you don't have a cymbal line, then 4 is ok). 4 horn guys, 3 guard, marching techs, etc. See what I mean? The numbers add up quickly. You can have section leaders lighten the load, but at the top level, students teaching students does not get the job done. The drum corps I work with has a staff of about 20, my marching band has the same. It can be expensive, but quality is never cheap. Finally, volunteers are great, but it is better to pay folks (even a little). It helps ensure that they will show up to rehearsal. Edited September 29, 2005 by randomnoise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Devil Legend Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Finally, volunteers are great, but it is better to pay folks (even a little). It helps ensure that they will show up to rehearsal. It depends on who. Personally, for my love of the activity, just being part of the process is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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