Bands of America: for the Drum Corps Fan

[Orpheus]

Touchy, aren't we?

Well, I tried to watch a BOA show once, but I fell asleep. All I can comment on is my BOA experiences <yawn>.

P.S. So what did Ronald Reagan play in 2005? (I've never heard of 'em ...)

P.P.S. And of course, how the music is arranged counts for a lot, too. You can excerpt music from the best composers ever, but if it's all chopped up (hack'n'slash) or turned into some sort of electronic whiz-bang noise machine with brass and woodwind accompanyment ... well, I won't be buying the CD (to say the least).

Edited December 2, 2005 by Orpheus

[Doxology11]

Hah, I think I meant to put a wink in there somewhere ; )

Part of my complaint is that this is being argued mostly by DCI fans who have never been to a big BOA competition with top notch competition. I fell asleep last summer somewhere between Blue Knights and Boston Crusaders. I won't deny there are many less than stellar bands out there playing less than stellar versions of music, but the top programs are playing demanding arrangements that keep the integrity of the original pieces.

Ronald Reagan's show included music from Profanation, Symphonic Metamorphosis, Blue Rondo a la Turk, Original music by Aaron Guidry, and the film Love Actually.

Here is a link to an amateur recording from very early in the year: http://www.skrampsnewplace.com/sounds/2005/RR2005.mp3

[Michael Boo]

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time any of the following were played by a BOA Finalist?

- Malaguena

- anything by Andrew Lloyd Weber

- West Side Story or any other of Leonard Bernstein's more popular works

- a show including well-known Gershwin music

...

Lawrence Central (5th place at BOA Grand National finals) played Weber's "Unexpected Song" this year.

Ronald Reagan (2nd place at finals) played Bernstein's "Profanation." (Some find that "popular.")

[Blackstar]

Touchy, aren't we?

Well, I tried to watch a BOA show once, but I fell asleep. All I can comment on is my BOA experiences <yawn>.

P.S. So what did Ronald Reagan play in 2005? (I've never heard of 'em ...)

P.P.S. And of course, how the music is arranged counts for a lot, too. You can excerpt music from the best composers ever, but if it's all chopped up (hack'n'slash) or turned into some sort of electronic whiz-bang noise machine with brass and woodwind accompanyment ... well, I won't be buying the CD (to say the least).

How many of the High School kids heard of Jersey Surf, Crossmen, Cavaliers, etc, You might be surprised at the number of kids who march but no nothing or very little of the activity.

I love Drum Corps but I'm finding the snobbery very offputting.

[wolfgang]

I attended a band competition here on the west coast in northern california. One band in exibition was of BOA caliber. I wasn't impressed with a single band there. Even the one of BOA caliber. Dirty feet, lack of movement follow through in the color guard, an annoying hang over with the keyboard bass(completely overshadowed the tuba's), sqeaky clarinet solo's played through a mike, shreakie flute solo's, dirty color guards, it was a mess to me. Marching band in 2005 is less interesting than marching band of the late 70's and 80"s to me. I think the level of excution amoung the top bands was better then than now, especially the color guards.

Have you ever been to BOA Grand Nationals or a major BOA regional?

Which BOA caliber band did you see (since no Northern California band has done BOA for a long time).

As far as execution between then and now, at some extent it's apples and oranges.

Compare 1979 DCI visual to 2005 DCI visual. No comparison in terms of what the performers are being asked to do. The 1979 visual may be as clean (or for the sake of argument slightly cleaner), but there is no comparision in what the performers are doing then vs now.

Same with bands. I can't speak to northern California bands, but in Indiana and BOA (at least at Grand Nationals) the top level bands perform extremely well. Is it the squads and precision drill of the 1970s? No, but the simultaneous demands on the performers is much, much greater today than 25 or 30 years ago.

[wolfgang]

i don't know anything else though. it seems to me that BOA finalists tend to play original music shows more often, and that's something that i really dislike. i'm not completely closeminded to new music, but often music written with the football field in mind tends to take the backseat to the visual production. that's something tha ti don't like.

There is a reason for that, and unfortunately it's only going to get worse.

You see, there is this thing called copyright law.

In the marching band world it was pretty much ignored until the 1990's (someone correct me if this is wrong), but in 1990 Marian Catholic played Johan DeMeij's "Lord of the Rings". Apparrently someone played a recording of it for him and to make a long story short that was the beginning of BOA requiring bands to get permission from the copyright holders.

Now, BOA is doing everyone a huge service by having a list on it's website of publishers/composers who will not let arrangements be done (off the top of my head- John William, Orff's "Carmina Burana", "Turandot" by Puccini, etc). It seems that this list is growing.

So...., if you will notice, lately enterprising guys like Key Poulan, Frank Sullivan, Richard Saucedo, Mark Higginbotham, etc. have started writing original music and selling it to high school bands (I'd say Poulan has had the largest national base of groups use his stuff). That way, there is not copyright issue to work around (and let's not forget it costs $$ to get permission, though the amount varies by composer or publisher).

We have also seen this in DCI, primarily from the Cavaliers.

I agree, an arrangement of an existing work is usually more interesting for me to listen to (though I will admit I have really liked a lot of the music Frank Sullivan has been putting out, especially for groups like Castle, Penn, Ben Davis, and even Tarpon Springs).

Even WGI has had groups get permission to use the pre recorded music on their dvd's (example, the IW finalist Light Brigade did a guard show of Prince music- however, the dvd is only video, no music due to issues such as this).

Bottom line- For better or worse, the train has left the station with regards to original music and it's not coming back.

[Jeff Ream]

Evolution can borrow and tweak, evolving the concept to a slightly different plane.

Coming up with something entirely new on one's own is revolution(ary).

i dont see a different plane. i see sameness everywhere.

[Jeff Ream]

Although I agree that the BOA experience does serve staffs alot, the marching members (let's call them "students", 'cause that's what they are!) are SUPPOSED to be the main beneficiaries of the experience. It's a school activity, and in most cases it's a class for credit. It's school music education. They really shouldn't be that concerned with drawing paying customers, and so they don't concern themselves that much with designing shows that will draw more paying customers. They design shows that the students can learn from. A show that will cover all of the standards and benchmarks for instrumental music education, and yes, so that the staffs can show off a little bit too.

In DCI there are paying customers that the corps need to be concerned about. They should balance that need with the need to educate their members when they design their shows. And yes, the staffs like to show off and that's taken into consideration when shows are designed too.

but these shows are designed for judges, so how educated are the kids really getting? they dont see the final product like the judges do.

So BOA needs to educate their students. DCI needs to educate its students AND entertain its audiences. I believe that's the root of the differences in show designs for both activites. But has "designer self-gratification" corrupted both?

yes.

I still think there are ways that drum corps can be innovative where marching bands can't. Everyone seems to agree that DCI's edge over BOA is its level of execution. Well if drum corps pull things off that bands can't even dream of attempting, then drum corps hasn't lost its edge!

[Jeff Ream]

"Band's Execution Levels":

Better "Then than now". Hear hear. We hopped a flight over the Pocono's to the NJA's "Atlantic Coast Championships" a few weeks back and came away with pretty much the same feelings as those you expressed.

Either almost every Group 4 unit in "Finals" that Sunday was having a bad night marching wise, or the general level of "Execution Excellence" has slipped badly all throuout the TOB program. "Dirty Feet" was pretty well epidemic, with some incredible "Early Season" errors (Out of step, intervals shot, sets falling apart) popping up all over the competition.

Just awfull....

Elphaba

WWW

that was a bad night.

[madscout96]

but these shows are designed for judges, so how educated are the kids really getting? they dont see the final product like the judges do.

If the students are taught what the show is about, what everything means, how they fit in with it, in other words, how their little picture fits in with the big picture, then they will have an understanding of the final product that judges see. And they'll probably perform their part of the show better, knowing how it all fits together. Hearing and seeing their own performances on video greatly helps them understand the big picture also.

If the students are just taught how to march their dots and/or forms, do their work, play their notes, etc., without being taught WHY their doing what their doing, than that's horribly wrong.