Bands of America: for the Drum Corps Fan

[elphaba01]

I attended a band competition here on the west coast in northern california. One band in exibition was of BOA caliber. I wasn't impressed with a single band there. Even the one of BOA caliber. Dirty feet, lack of movement follow through in the color guard, an annoying hang over with the keyboard bass(completely overshadowed the tuba's), sqeaky clarinet solo's played through a mike, shreakie flute solo's, dirty color guards, it was a mess to me. Marching band in 2005 is less interesting than marching band of the late 70's and 80"s to me. I think the level of excution amoung the top bands was better then than now, especially the color guards.

"Band's Execution Levels":

Better "Then than now". Hear hear. We hopped a flight over the Pocono's to the NJA's "Atlantic Coast Championships" a few weeks back and came away with pretty much the same feelings as those you expressed.

Either almost every Group 4 unit in "Finals" that Sunday was having a bad night marching wise, or the general level of "Execution Excellence" has slipped badly all throuout the TOB program. "Dirty Feet" was pretty well epidemic, with some incredible "Early Season" errors (Out of step, intervals shot, collisions, sets falling apart) popping up all over the competition.

Even more disturbing were the stratospheric "Visual" scores awarded for less than spectacular execution efforts. Who's foolin' who here.....

We were not AT ALL impressed with the "Vocals" and amping that a couple of the units used. The time would have been better spent CLEANING the drill.

Just awfull....

Elphaba

WWW

Edited December 7, 2005 by elphaba01

[jonnyboy]

I started a thread about a band beating a corps. It can happen. If all things were equal it could. I'm not talking the dumb and obvious no woodwinds or overage but a set of rules fair and equal to both a top notch band could beat a drum corps, and I'm not talking about (no offense) Raiders, Pioneer, Surf but Crossmen, Spirit, or I'll put to that from the top 10-21 could lose to a band. Why because everyone can lose to someone else on a given day. With the right drill, instructors and time it could happen. And when I say a top notch band they are going against top notch Corps. I would love to see a Carmel or Tarpon Springs go against a Blue Knights or Crossmen or Pioneer. Now that would be a nice fund raiser for some smart Corps.

Now there is a competition. I would assume if BOA judges score BOA gets the nod, and if DCI judges score they get the win, but what if 10,000 "average joes" were polled at a live event? I would guess most would say "what is the diference", but most would also vote for the DC.

Sitting through BOA Semifinals is much more enjoyable than sitting through DCI Semifinals. The top 30 bands in BOA are much more diverse and distinct than all of Division 1. The shows are each completely different, incoporating different styles, structures, messages, and emotions. Where in DCI, you can expect the same basic structure (Opener, Ballad, Drum Break/Jazz Break, Closer) and same type of 'impact' points, bands rely on ingenuity and resourcefulness to experiment and surprise. Shows like Ronald Reagan's 2005 program entitled 'You Never Know' seem to follow no pattern at all, improvising as they go along. Where Drum Corps rely on tradition and what has worked before, bands change from year to year and continuously evolve. Marian Catholic went from an extremely dark, abstract show 'Facets' in 2003 to a quiet, beautiful production 'An Impressionistic Tapestry' in 2004. There is also much more emotion involved in BOA Semifinals. There are always new bands coming in, bands coming back, bands breaking through. At the beginning of each year, every band can honestly believe that they can make a run at finals. Where the same corps populate the top 6 and top 13 each year, new bands are always breaking into finals at BOA for the first time. Ayala did it last year, Owasso did it this year. BOA's diversity is driven by its competitiveness; if you aren't careful one year, a band who finished 2nd the year before can finish 12th the next year.

Your statement was supposed to be my argument that BOA bands all try and out-intelectualize eachother, but you make a very good point to the contrary, maybe they are just trying to out-design and out-create eachother. The concept that a band can make a push with design (among other things) and grow in leaps and bounds from one year to the next is something we rarely see in DC. I do think the top corps try and out-do eachother every year, but show design sometimes seems to be coming from a very shallow gene pool. I don't want drastic change towards BOA style shows, but I do want new and exciting things. Maybe we need some new blood to change things within the drumcorps medium, where is the next generation of Hopkins, Cesario, Hannum etc?

Edited December 2, 2005 by jonnyboy

[PhantomFanT10]

"Band's Execution Levels":

Better "Then than now". Hear hear. We hopped a flight over the Pocono's to the NJA's "Atlantic Coast Championships" a few weeks back and came away with pretty much the same feelings as those you expressed.

Either almost every Group 4 unit in "Finals" that Sunday was having a bad night marching wise, or the general level of "Execution Excellence" has slipped badly all throuout the TOB program. "Dirty Feet" was pretty well epidemic, with some incredible "Early Season" errors (Out of step, intervals shot, sets falling apart) popping up all over the competition.

Just awfull....

Elphaba

WWW

You won't see that in the best of the best. You WILL see that in top groups in lesser circuits or lesser quality groups...there ARE some extrordinarily clean bands.

I hope no one comes off with the opinion that I like bands better than corps. I just think so many people are determined to hate marching bands b/c of woodwinds, amps, shows, whatever. If you are determined to dislike something, you will dislike it and see the worst in it. Of course the same works in reverse.

[Orpheus]

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time any of the following were played by a BOA Finalist?

- Malaguena

- anything by Andrew Lloyd Weber

- West Side Story or any other of Leonard Bernstein's more popular works

- a show including well-known Gershwin music

edit: How do you think a band with a VK or Bridgemen-like style would fare at BOA, assuming they were able to execute on a level similar to the other top bands?

Edited December 2, 2005 by Orpheus

[liebot]

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time any of the following were played by a BOA Finalist?

- Malaguena

- anything by Andrew Lloyd Weber

- West Side Story or any other of Leonard Bernstein's more popular works

- a show including well-known Gershwin music

edit: How do you think a band with a VK or Bridgemen-like style would fare at BOA, assuming they were able to execute on a level similar to the other top bands?

Ronald Reagan (i believe... maybe it was Stephen F. Austin) played a snippet of Malaguena in their 2003 show (it was the main melody).

i don't know anything else though. it seems to me that BOA finalists tend to play original music shows more often, and that's something that i really dislike. i'm not completely closeminded to new music, but often music written with the football field in mind tends to take the backseat to the visual production. that's something tha ti don't like.

[PhantomFanT10]

The last time that music would have succeeded is when the world of HS marching band was much different. The early 90's or late 80's is my guess. That was the "golden era" of high school marching band in my mind. My school would have done very well many years ago with what we have today. But we never did well because it was music and marching, not theme that ruled the show. My band was never in attendance at BOA GN. By the time they did (and only for one season) the music in motion wasn't enough to compete with the themed shows. It would be impossible to older corps playing in todays BOA. The evolution of HS marching bands to what they are now saddens me. It would be impossible to explain (and no one would care), but I'd rather listen to my band belting out The Ascension, no gimmicks at all, than watch the winner of Grand Nationals this year.

Edited December 2, 2005 by PhantomFanT10

[PhantomR]

all I have to say is this:

Marching band really isn't that bad. I love it. I am in a very competitive marching band here in South Carolina... we have medaled in state the past 4 years, just getting second this year. I absolutely love it.

now, grant it, I have never marched in a drum corps (I have participated in the Crown november camp) so I can't really say which one is better.

I still, to this day, do not think Marching band has become the more intellectual of the two. I like to think that both of the activities grow from themeselves, as opposed to eachother. That isn't to say it hasn't been done, but I still like to think to myself, it hasn't been done.

I dont think it's to such an extreme, that everyone makes it out to be. I dont think drum corps "copies" marching band, or vice versa.

Both of the activities (to my knowledge) remain fairly original, from my viewpoint. There are band programs that have grown very succesful using shows that drum corps have used. My band uses ALOT of drum corps stuff. Our drumline cadence for this past year was "Electric Wheelchair" (see also SCV 2002.)

I think that drum corps can in essence borrow stuff marching bands use, but there is nothing wrong with that. That doesn't necessarily mean that drum corps will "grow" off marching band.

Of course, I dont have the standpoint most of you all have... I haven't been around the activity NEARLY as long.

Those are my opinions, and my reasons.

~>conner

Edited December 2, 2005 by PhantomR

[PhantomR]

Ronald Reagan (i believe... maybe it was Stephen F. Austin) played a snippet of Malaguena in their 2003 show (it was the main melody).

i don't know anything else though. it seems to me that BOA finalists tend to play original music shows more often, and that's something that i really dislike. i'm not completely closeminded to new music, but often music written with the football field in mind tends to take the backseat to the visual production. that's something tha ti don't like.

Not really. RR used Malaguena as a basis melody, for one of there movements. But it wasn't the main melody of the show (if that's what you meant)

~>conner

[Orpheus]

That is the one thing I did take away from my visits to BOA Grand Nats ... DCI does have some very "artsy" shows, but it still tries to be mainly about execution and entertainment. BOA seems to be more about the different designers trying to out-design each other. Cadets '05 notwithstanding, I'm glad as heck that in DCI, you can still play "Rhapsody in Blue," music from James Bond films, music by a 70s rock band, or a relatively familiar "symphonic" work by a popular composer (i.e. "Scheherazade") and still place in the top four!

[Doxology11]

That is the one thing I did take away from my visits to BOA Grand Nats ... DCI does have some very "artsy" shows, but it still tries to be mainly about execution and entertainment. BOA seems to be more about the different designers trying to out-design each other. Cadets '05 notwithstanding, I'm glad as heck that in DCI, you can still play "Rhapsody in Blue," music from James Bond films, music by a 70s rock band, or a relatively familiar "symphonic" work by a popular composer (i.e. "Scheherazade") and still place in the top four!

Oh well...does that mean Paul Hindemith and Leonard Bernstein are no longer popular compsers of symphonic works (Ronald Reagan 2005) ? I guess Rachmaninoff is out too (Lawrence Central 2005). Maybe bands should get people that write music for Drum Corps to write for them, like Richard Saucedo (Carmel, Kennesaw Mountain, Tarpon Springs, etc.) and Jay Bocock (Avon). Or start playing music by Eric Whitacre (Westfield 2003, Avon 2005, Richland 2005, LD Bell 2005, etc.). Hey, maybe somebody could play music from the movie 'Pollack' (Marian Catholic 2002), I don't think drum corps has caught on to that yet.