Jeff Ream Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 well, wlecome to a lot of competitive programs today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If the students are taught what the show is about, what everything means, how they fit in with it, in other words, how their little picture fits in with the big picture, then they will have an understanding of the final product that judges see. And they'll probably perform their part of the show better, knowing how it all fits together. Hearing and seeing their own performances on video greatly helps them understand the big picture also.If the students are just taught how to march their dots and/or forms, do their work, play their notes, etc., without being taught WHY their doing what their doing, than that's horribly wrong. I don't think a band can be as good as the BOA finalists are without knowig the "why". Heck, with the band I arrange for and teach we are careful to make sure the band members understand what we are doing and why, and we always use video to make sure they see the big picture, all season long. And...we are by no means a BOA-finalist caliber band. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomR Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Touchy, aren't we? Well, I tried to watch a BOA show once, but I fell asleep. All I can comment on is my BOA experiences <yawn>. P.S. So what did Ronald Reagan play in 2005? (I've never heard of 'em ...) P.P.S. And of course, how the music is arranged counts for a lot, too. You can excerpt music from the best composers ever, but if it's all chopped up (hack'n'slash) or turned into some sort of electronic whiz-bang noise machine with brass and woodwind accompanyment ... well, I won't be buying the CD (to say the least). Ronald Reagan is arguably the best band in the country... if you haven't heard of them, I doubt you've given the "BOA Experience" a chance. ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 DCI does have some very "artsy" shows, but it still tries to be mainly about execution and entertainment. BOA seems to be more about the different designers trying to out-design each other. Dan, you've always struck me as a pretty fair guy... until this thread. It's hard for me to believe I'm reading posts from the same guy. Yes, BOA shows are quite often very inventive, as the designers attempt to put out a creative product. As I see it though, this is no different than what DCI designers attempt to do - especially considering the same people are often behind both shows. If there's a difference in content, it would appear to be because the BOA designers have more options at their disposal, and so shows are far more diverse. But don't think for an instant that it isn't about execution. A bad run is still a bad run, and a band will see their score suffer for it. No design can ever achieve its full effect unless it is performed at a high level. And while the designers may spend their time trying to out-design each other - which sounds exactly like their job description, to me - the students in the band spend their time doing nothing but practicing. Does practice have anything to do with design? Nope. Practice is nothing but a group of kids spending hours every day, for months at a time, trying to perform one show at the highest level that they can. To say that BOA and/or marching band isn't about execution is to discount the time that students dedicate to practicing their show. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. And Conner's absolutely right. If you haven't ever heard of Ronald Reagan HS, then I seriously question your exposure to BOA, and it's hard for me to think that you're approaching the marching band activity with an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomR Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 about the good run/bad run thing... I agree 100%... look at this past year for an example. Ronald Reagan was almost sure to win, and they got beat in finals, by Carmel. I'm basing that on either Carmel having a flawless run (and apparently, they had good runs all through the week... finals being no different) or Ronald Reagan having a not-so-good run. Obviously, the better designed program did notwin out... the better of the two did... whether that be because of a good run/bad run basis. It's not all about design. ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Dan, you've always struck me as a pretty fair guy... until this thread. It's hard for me to believe I'm reading posts from the same guy. Yes, BOA shows are quite often very inventive, as the designers attempt to put out a creative product. As I see it though, this is no different than what DCI designers attempt to do - especially considering the same people are often behind both shows. If there's a difference in content, it would appear to be because the BOA designers have more options at their disposal, and so shows are far more diverse.But don't think for an instant that it isn't about execution. A bad run is still a bad run, and a band will see their score suffer for it. No design can ever achieve its full effect unless it is performed at a high level. And while the designers may spend their time trying to out-design each other - which sounds exactly like their job description, to me - the students in the band spend their time doing nothing but practicing. Does practice have anything to do with design? Nope. Practice is nothing but a group of kids spending hours every day, for months at a time, trying to perform one show at the highest level that they can. To say that BOA and/or marching band isn't about execution is to discount the time that students dedicate to practicing their show. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. And Conner's absolutely right. If you haven't ever heard of Ronald Reagan HS, then I seriously question your exposure to BOA, and it's hard for me to think that you're approaching the marching band activity with an open mind. from my BOA experiences, it seems GE is weighted even more heavily here than in even DCI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomFanT10 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 BOA is musicality first and foremost. In all forms. It recieves the most weight in terms of the score sheets. But I agree that sometimes GE does a bit TOO much to bolster some bands up to the top. General Effect IS probably taken into account during BOA events SLIGHTLY more than at DCI events simply because of the activity and the medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomR Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 from my BOA experiences, it seems GE is weighted even more heavily here than in even DCI you're right. GE is weighted twords 50 (maybe 60) percent of the overall score. but GE is split into two categories, is it not? which means GE has GE music and GE visual. That still means, regardless, that if you have a band run in either of the two captions, your GE score will still suffer. ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 ok question. how many bands out there truly have huge scoring discrepancies between the two GE captions? rarely do you see much of a difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomR Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 between the two GE captions? Yes they do. I'll take my band as an example. We placed 2nd overall this year... There is a reson for that to. We swept the visual categories (including GE visual.) The band that beat us, only beat us in music... this was the rundown (different scoring system, just bear with it.) http://www.bandlink.org/events/Marching/mc2005/3AState05.htm look at the GE (OE) scores. We got SLAMMED in Music OE. (now grant it, this guy just blatently said he didn't like our show) But yes, there is a difference between the two. Keep looking down that score sheet... there is such an oblong view on how the bands did, and the scores (mainly in OE category) reflect. I can't give you a link to the BOA 2005 recap, but believe me... they are varied as well. I'll take Centerville for an example... they had a 17.7 and 17.3 (two judges add up to GE music score) in music GE... and a 18.4 in GE visual. Avon high school: 18.5 and an 18.1 in GE music... 19.4 in GE visual so yeah... if you really want to see the whole recap, just make a BOA account (believe me it wont kill you.) ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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