Pioneer

[PeeJay]

What if Pioneer is an organization that is more interested in promoting great tradition and crowd appealing shows vrs. going for the Gold ???

BINGO !!!! Even when I marched in 1995 and we beat the crap out of all of Division II/III (undefeated for 3 seasons 1994, 1995, 1996 (except finals 1996)) the word 'title' was hardly mentioned.....not a pure goal, just a great thing to achieve 3 DCI rings within 5 years.

[PeeJay]

but hypothetically if they consistantly place low, you'd expect less kids to try out for them, brings in less money, can get them into financial situations, lack of commitment from the kids etc...

Valig point, but:

* In 2004 & 2005 Pioneer has shown growth in the number of members

* Pioneer owns all their vehicles, instruments, etc

* Pioneer owns a land with buildings (http://www.pioneer-corps.org/about/pioneerland.htm)

And I must say that the way the members are treated.......awesome. I remember when I marched that people from corps that I will not mention, but are currently placing in top 12 came to our foodtruck begging for food ! Is that the direction we want drum corps to take....

[troopmello]

Well, this is not a very exciting topic is it. Are we now going to see the same topic about Troopers ?

If you don't like Pioneer that is fine. Don't watch them. As long as people are still marching there.....what difference does it make to you ? If I had to list all the corps' themes I don't like I could fill a posting. But what is the purpose...... :blah:

Well, as a member who marched Troopers, I'm just going to say I agree with the original poster whole-heartedly for both Pioneer and Troopers. It also doesn't help that we can never fill a full 135 spots, but that's a recruiting.

Tradition is great, but utilizing tradition and while still being progressive and putting out great programs is really what it should be about. The Cavies, I think, are the best example of this.

[Jeff Ream]

Valig point, but:

* In 2004 & 2005 Pioneer has shown growth in the number of members

* Pioneer owns all their vehicles, instruments, etc

* Pioneer owns a land with buildings (http://www.pioneer-corps.org/about/pioneerland.htm)

And I must say that the way the members are treated.......awesome. I remember when I marched that people from corps that I will not mention, but are currently placing in top 12 came to our foodtruck begging for food ! Is that the direction we want drum corps to take....

here's one other thing people dont seem to mention here.....there is more competition in D1 than there was even 8 years ago. so take away all the new or returned faces, and Pioneer is still in semis or #### close

[PeeJay]

here's one other thing people dont seem to mention here.....there is more competition in D1 than there was even 8 years ago. so take away all the new or returned faces, and Pioneer is still in semis or #### close

Yes and thinking of that.....it really bothers me that the competitiveness of Pioneer and the Irish style are tied together as some sort of 'If you play this, you are going to end low'....it just doesn't make sense.

Here are the results when Pioneer played Irish:

1994 : 18th

1995 : 18th (0.3 out of semi's)

1996 : 20th (0.9 out of semi's)

1997 : 19th (1.3 out of semi's)

1998 : 18th (1.9 out of semi's)

1999 : 17th

2000 : 16th

2001 : 18th (0.05 out of semi's)

2004 : 24th (6.9 out of semi's)

2005 : 23rd (7.025 out of semi's)

And here when they did not:

2002 : 22nd (6.05 out of semi's)

2003 : 23rd (8.15 out of semi's)

So statistically.........GO IRISH !!!!

[Elmo Blatch]

I don't know why, but everytime I see Pioneer now, I think of the Sinatra Group.

Frank Sinatra: I'll tell you what you better understand! Next time you see Old Glory riding up that pole, you better sing that anthem, darling! You're lucky you're a chick, or you'd be nothing but a stain on the road and a crewcut. Our founding fathers went to the mat for you, baby!

Sinead O'Connor: It's not my flag - I'm Irish.

Frank Sinatra: Oh? Well, then stay off of this stuff.. [ mimes drinking ] That's the curse of you people. Billy Idol!

I bet we could have fun changing the names and topics to fit the monologue.

Elmo Blatch

[Lancerlady]

[Red emphasis mine].

This is strong language. No attacks have taken place. By making allegations of attacks you seem to be generating more negativity than that of which you are critical. The original poster and a few others have merely suggested that Pioneer consider a different form of music because they believe a change would be refreshing. You assert they're disrespectful. Could it not be that they've shared their opinions because they care about Pioneer?

I'm not the one who started the thread in which the title is very negative. "Pioneer, your tradition is killing you", then the poster goes on to give his opinion, all I'm doing is the same. THAT IS WHAT IS STRONG LANGUAGE (the title of the thread and the original poster even starts off "I know I'm gonna get flamed for this), Why say that if it's just "conversation? All I'm doing is giving my opinion about how I feel regarding this thread. I say there is a way to approach a subject, and I don't necessarily agree with this approach.

You have to think about how kids read these threads who march Pioneer, that must not be real comforting to them to hear all this negativity. I am not being negative at all. Just stating there is a different way to approach this subject.

It's in the WAY they have been saying this about Pioneer that is bothering me.

And I guess people are just missing my point so I'll just move on from this thread...

Oh and Roman, I LOVE THE HAT! :P

Edited December 7, 2005 by Lancerlady

[Dave]

You have to think about how kids read these threads who march Pioneer, that must not be real comforting to them to hear all this negativity. I am not being negative at all. Just stating there is a different way to approach this subject.

Everything in this thread is very mild compared to what's been said of pretty much all the top 6 or 7 corps.

[Lancerlady]

Maybe this will make some of you feel better about their staff and program after you read this.

It seems they got Paul Rennick as their percussion arranger.(Great move)...and another great staff..

Now you can find another corps to tell how to run . :) :sshh:

Pioneer Staff

Edited December 7, 2005 by Lancerlady

[DCIAGEOUT]

I'm just really shocked to be reading some of the things in this thread and the disrespect..but that's just my opinion.

Leave Pioneer alone, at least they have the bawls to stay true to who they are... :)

And I didn't say it wasn't, I just said it was disrespectful to me the way that some are attacking Pioneer and their choice of music, all they are doing is holding on to tradition.

When those who don't like it become directors, then they can decide what a corps will play. Until then, I'll just choose to ignore all this disrespectfulness. <**>

It's one thing to have a discussion, it's another to come right out and attack the corps for the style of music they choose.

See the thing is that people will post on here, and it doesn't read they way they intend it to, but I agree with you on this. But, I believe people should post thier thoughts, howvever, a little more thought should be put into a post so it may not come across as attacks. Pioneer is a great orginization. I would like to see sometime in this thread some positive things about pioneer, because right now, alot of the post come across as complaining or negative.