Pioneer

[Lancerlady]

yea, and Michael Gaines writes drill for spirit, so what? you can have all the great instructors on the earth, but if you dont have the talent it doesnt help you, and i dont mean to say any of the kids in pio dont have talent, but its hard to attract the really really great people when you're sitting at the bottom

Wow Y'all are the ones #####ing if they have a great staff and program they'll attract more talent, now they are heading in the right direction and you still say this? Wow... :sshh:

[felixh]

I fully expect to get flamed for this, but it's just an opinion:

While it's nice to have an identity (BD- jazz, Phantom- Classical,etc)), sometimes if one wants to move up the ladder, a shakeup is necessary.

Pioneer has yet again chosen an Irish themed show. They can obviously do whatever they wish, but they've just about milked everything they can out of the theme. Maybe it's time for Roman to get over it and allow his staff to go in another direction.

Pioneer may well be improved over last year, just as they were improved in 2005 over 2004. However, I expect another year of similar finishes (competitively speaking. I don't see them over Blue Stars).

It would be nice to see these guys take a chance and go in a different programming direction that is less limiting.

Just my $.02 worth,

Wolfgang

I understand where you are coming from, but are you sure it is the Irish music that is causing this "killing"....there are many reasons why corps fade in and out of existence.....to be honest with you this is the first time I have heard it attributed to a corps theme, or even lack thereof.....I believe that any theme done well will result in the corps eventually doing well, unless something has changed....I am not saying that you are not on to something, ...this is just the first time I have heard this.....how are Pioneers finances?....support?......maybe someone should answer these questions as well....the Troopers problems were pretty well documented.....tax problems and finances right?

Edited December 7, 2005 by felixh

[morganhill]

I fully expect to get flamed for this, but it's just an opinion:

While it's nice to have an identity (BD- jazz, Phantom- Classical,etc)), sometimes if one wants to move up the ladder, a shakeup is necessary.

Pioneer has yet again chosen an Irish themed show. They can obviously do whatever they wish, but they've just about milked everything they can out of the theme. Maybe it's time for Roman to get over it and allow his staff to go in another direction.

Pioneer may well be improved over last year, just as they were improved in 2005 over 2004. However, I expect another year of similar finishes (competitively speaking. I don't see them over Blue Stars).

It would be nice to see these guys take a chance and go in a different programming direction that is less limiting.

Just my $.02 worth,

Wolfgang

My feelings exactly. As I said once before, I find their continuing use of Irish theme music very boring. It's like hearing the same music year after year after year. On the other hand, if that's what they like to play, more power to them. I just don't see them advancing any higher than 23rd or 24th. That is if they stubbornly continue in this same direction. But thats just my two cents worth.

[glory]

I wouldn't have expected it, but it turns there is a Pioneer borg too. I suppose it's a good thing that some folks have enough passion for the corps to suggest - wrongly I believe - that you can't criticize the music it chooses.

HH

[Phantom&Phitch]

Wow Y'all are the ones #####ing if they have a great staff and program they'll attract more talent, now they are heading in the right direction and you still say this? Wow... :sshh:

i never said anything about their staff... only their programs... they need to design them better. even if you have a phenominal staff, you can only do so much with a less than stellar program.

[Roark1]

Hey Pioneer, hang in there and go where your vision leads you. Above all, have fun!

[leadsoplove]

What I have seen in all the arguments against Pioneer's design and talent levels and all that other bullcrap are completely trivial. The main issue the corps has been having is a lack in stability in staff over the past few seasons. From the position that most are taking, one would have to assume that the staff is constant and that the design team is the same. That is simply not true. Why assume that everything is going to be the same every season when the staff is obviously pretty much all-new in 2006? And those of you b******* about our lack of talent level, how about you go and do some recruiting for us? I wouldn't mind your criticisms if you were offering actual solutions other than the obvious "get kids who play good" crap. I also take it very personally when all of you so casually speak of our talent level. In the past three seasons I have marched with those who are now Scouts, members of Phantom, Cavies, SCV, etc. So OBVIOUSLY Pioneer is not devoid of talent. I think you all need to get a secondary hobby outside of, again, b******* about things that corps do that you can't do anything about. Do any of you HONESTLY think that Roman will consider ANYTHING posted on this board in the least? If you know Roman, you will know that he probably has never even seen the homepage of drumcorpsplanet.com himself. Why don't you write nice emails or letters to him since you are all so greatly concerned about a corps many of you seem to just dislike. Sure you can say that you don't dislike the corps.... but if you say that you hate the irish theme and the show designs (in that discredit the work that all of us young, immature, untalented musicians put into it), you are saying that you dislike the corps. I think this thread should be ended because I know that many of you would not come up to even my face and tell me that everything I have done over the past few years has been crap. Although I must admit I would probably like the opportunity that would present.

[leadsoplove]

Oh, and BTW... you are still all comparing 2004 and 2005 only. 2003 was Holsinger, so for those of you making the argument that Pioneer NEVER switches things up, put a little more thought into your posts. I know right off the top of my head a corps that did two VERY similiar shows back to back.. oh wait, no, two. SCV in 88 and 89. Scouts in 91 and 92. I know there is more. My point is still that this thread is in fact pointless.

[geluf]

but if you say that you hate the irish theme and the show designs (in that discredit the work that all of us young, immature, untalented musicians put into it), you are saying that you dislike the corps.

Um...that's not true at all. I'm allowed to dislike a show theme or design without disliking the corps.

I mean, come on, EVERY corps has done shows I don't like...yes, even my favorite corps.

Did I suddenly hate the Blue Devils because of their 05 show? No. Didn't care for the show, but that doesn't mean I have to HATE them, as you seem to imply. Same thing with Pioneer. I think you should step back and realize that just because you aren't 100 percent behind a concept, doesn't mean you hate the group.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I agree. That is along the same lines as band kids who LOOVEEEE whatever corps wins each year, only to forget them in favor of the new champion next year. Most mature drum corps fans and members have the ability to differentiate between liking the members, the staff, the show design, and the corps as a whole.