Where does colorguard go from here, your opinions

[BD_Fan]

Ha!

Back in the day, you didn't NEED techs! The guard instructor did ALL of it...marching, equipment work...and the lack of necessity for ballet training to clean footwork was very refreshing.

Maybe that's the key...if you need a separate tech just to clean footwork, isn't that going over the line and re-evaluation of the activity needs to take place? Deftguy's comments on 27th Lancers and Anaheim Kingsmen's guards are right: they pass the "freeze frame" test, for sure!

And do you really think anyone cares to hear you gloat about what it was like back in your day?

[jojo]

wait a minute ... I thought we were talking about evolution

I've already marched exactly like the corps, wore exactly what the corps wore and been totally integrated into the corps and the drill. I've already had an M&M instructor, marching techs and clean feet coupled with (kick azz) precision. All in the 70's. And because it happened in the 70's it doesn't seem evolutionary to me now.

So this dicsussion leads me to wonder -- is there any new ground to explore or are we just going in circles/cycles?

And on the subject of emoting -- if we use what the audience sees as a criteria for what to do and what not to do as performers then why use all the difficult hand positions, cradles, traveling on multiple plane and on multiple areas of the equipment, tricks, etc with equipment -- as long as the flags go round and round who cares what the intricacies are cuz the audience can't see 'em ... right? We should be careful where in the sand we draw that particular line.

[Stick Stack]

Ha!

Back in the day, you didn't NEED techs! The guard instructor did ALL of it...marching, equipment work...and the lack of necessity for ballet training to clean footwork was very refreshing.

Maybe that's the key...if you need a separate tech just to clean footwork, isn't that going over the line and re-evaluation of the activity needs to take place? Deftguy's comments on 27th Lancers and Anaheim Kingsmen's guards are right: they pass the "freeze frame" test, for sure!

I hope you're kidding!! :P It seems to me like backwards thinking to think that if you can't clean it with "the guard instructor" than you should re-evaluate the difficulty. Most drum corps guard staffs involve 4 to 5 instructors now. Adding techs makes sense since guard demands a wider variety of skills (Such as dance, dance with equipment, etc...). It is extremely difficult for one instructor to watch and correct 30+ members by themselves. Espcially with all of the split parts, individual parts, layered parts, people on different equipment on opposite sides of the field and everything.

The whole thing is that the tic system was abolished so guards could attempt and achieve more without worrying that they aren't absolutely precise down to their pinky toes. They are doing great on the attempting more things side and great on the achieving side. Of course it's nothing like it was in the past. What they are doing is COMPLETELY different.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Stick Stack

[deftguy]

wait a minute ... I thought we were talking about evolution

I've already marched exactly like the corps, wore exactly what the corps wore and been totally integrated into the corps and the drill. I've already had an M&M instructor, marching techs and clean feet coupled with (kick azz) precision. All in the 70's. And because it happened in the 70's it doesn't seem evolutionary to me now.

So this dicsussion leads me to wonder -- is there any new ground to explore or are we just going in circles/cycles?

And on the subject of emoting -- if we use what the audience sees as a criteria for what to do and what not to do as performers then why use all the difficult hand positions, cradles, traveling on multiple plane and on multiple areas of the equipment, tricks, etc with equipment -- as long as the flags go round and round who cares what the intricacies are cuz the audience can't see 'em ... right? We should be careful where in the sand we draw that particular line.

Actually Jojo, perhaps you cannot see the extricate hands positions themselves, but the unusual spin that the hand position imparts is very visual. There are probably some planes that the flag or rifle can travel that would not visually look the same from field level as it would from the box or stands. Flags just moving round and round would be boring, and considering there are a thousand more things to do with a flag other than just spin, minimalizing it to that level is a pretty useless point.

Since different hand position, cradling and traveling on different planes require the participation of the entire body, this would be much more visable than a smile, especially with other moving objects around. The best method I use is to make sure no move is wasted visually, so the body and the equipment become the most predominate things visually. Most of the guards I have recently worked with used no facial expressions on the field, but they needed a face of clay for WGI because they had so many facial expressions.

I would argue that any of us who marched in the 70's and early 80's could make the same arguement about wearing the same uni as the corps, being totally integrated with the corps drill, and marched like the corps. But let's face it, this is more than twenty years ago, and there is a whole generation of kids who have never seen this, EVER.

The last guard I taught I infused a great deal of old school equipment work, flying equipment and exchanges into the new style of layering equipment work with the body and movement. It was not only a huge sucess with the performers, but the judges as well as the audiences loved it. It was then I realized that a fusion of the old, and the new could be a possible direction for the future.

I believe we have done all that can be done in colorguard. The only thing left to do is either incorporate more dance and less equipment which would make guard a dance team. I just cannot think of anywhere else to go, hence my question " where do we go from here?"

[SBrancheau]

And do you really think anyone cares to hear you gloat about what it was like back in your day?

<**>

Nice...very nice.

[SBrancheau]

I hope you're kidding!! :P It seems to me like backwards thinking to think that if you can't clean it with "the guard instructor" than you should re-evaluate the difficulty. Most drum corps guard staffs involve 4 to 5 instructors now. Adding techs makes sense since guard demands a wider variety of skills (Such as dance, dance with equipment, etc...). It is extremely difficult for one instructor to watch and correct 30+ members by themselves. Espcially with all of the split parts, individual parts, layered parts, people on different equipment on opposite sides of the field and everything.

The whole thing is that the tic system was abolished so guards could attempt and achieve more without worrying that they aren't absolutely precise down to their pinky toes. They are doing great on the attempting more things side and great on the achieving side. Of course it's nothing like it was in the past. What they are doing is COMPLETELY different.

Stick:

Sort of kidding...but not too much.

I have always been honest that I've never marched in drum corps. However, I did march high school and college guard and TAUGHT high school guard for about 8 years. And yes, I had to teach and correct 30+ guard members by myself. And, back in the day, we did split parts, individual parts and different equipment on opposite sides of the field. This is nothing new.

I don't think it's a terrible thing to be "absolutely precise down to their pinky toes". What guard does today belongs more on the stage in pointe shoes than it does on a football field. One of the things that ballet troupes have that guards do not is YEARS of technique (taught nearly identically and with the same terminology globally). Guards will maybe get some ballet technique in high school, but it's not extensive. I have enough dance background that I know the difference between good technique and bad technique and varying degrees in between. I guess I feel like, unless you do it WELL, don't do it. And most guards don't do it well. So why have it in the activity?

There is a beauty to the "freeze frame", which captured uniformity of rifle angles, hand position, toss height. Uniformity is not a bad thing, yet it is vilified (unless, of course, you're talking about corps uniforms, then Cesario designs rule the day - but that's an entirely different topic!) because it's considered stifling to the creative process. Hogwash, I say: Hogwash!

The tic system was not abolished so that guards could "attempt and achieve more without worrying..." It was abolished to reward the ENTIRE drum corps...a positive versus negative judging experience. I do believe there was benefit to the tic system: the pursuit of perfection. I always strived to perform flawlessly. And it was the biggest rush when I did. The tic system pushed the entire group of musicians and auxiliary to try for a perfect performance.

Where will guard be in the next 10 years? Who knows? I do hope it goes somewhat backwards...back to where uniformity and precision were more important than emoting and pas de bourree.

Notice that I said SOMEWHAT backward...not all the way backward!

Sally

[rifleboypa]

The Renegades 2004 show was quite an expressive show. We were asked to convey a variety of emotions on our faces throughout portions of the show to reflect the mood of the music. My best friend attended every one of our California shows that year. He sat in various positions along the 50 yard line from higher up, to down in front. He had absolutely no idea that we did any facial expressions whatsoever in our show. As a matter of fact NONE of my friends who saw our show noticed any facial expressions. This to me this is a rather weird attempt to blend WGI with DCI on the field. This is something I have never understood. What works on the basketball floor does not necessarily translate well on the field. I have no problem with emoting, smiling, or any other emotion translated to the face, but when it is largely unnoticeable, what is the purpose? I personally would like to put more emphasis as a performer on things like my timing, my footing, my posture, being comfortable with the work, and showing emotion through my work and body than try and keep a facial expression intact. I think this is majoring in minors, but that is just my opinion

This should not be the job of the pit, I think this would be carrying it just a little far. The pit is to add flexibilty and color to the percussion section. I also do not agree with you analogy about emoting in guard. The combination of big and smaller articulated moves are what creates dynamics in performance. Any facial expression is guilding the lily. Ballet and modern dancers I have seen show no facial expressions whatsoever, it is all about the body, and the dance moves the body does. The face is just one aspect of showing emotion, the body is another. I have seen guards that used no facial expressions at all, but used the body and equipment VERY effectively to convey emotion.

The Renegades colorguard's 2004 show didn't have a single dance move for most of the colorguard. There were only a very few dancers, at most I think 4. If anyone thought that show lacked dynamics, they had to have eyes on their bum.

I do not like absolutes in a art medium(i.e. you must do this, or do that or you lack this). This stifles creativity, and homogenizes the medium itself. If everyone is required to do this and that, then the only thing that will differentiate one group over another, is the costume they wear. This has been my complaint over the last three or so years watching colorguards in DCI. Most colorguard members are not professionals, so there is only so much dance technique they can injest at the level they currently are at. I am sure you will find some members that might dance professionally, however there are anywhere from 30-36 colorguard members on the field, and all of them have different levels of dance expertise. This is my problem with dance in cologuard. It is inconsistant from performer to performer(something of which most don't allow themselves to see). If I was to do my famous freeze frame test, you will find bodies and bodiy parts, rifles and flags in different places with almost no constistancy whatsoever. You have some very good dancers next to mediocre ones, and some that are just not good at all. Now go back to the seventies and look at 27th lancers or the Kingsman colorguard. Every picture that has been taken of the rifle line during a toss found that every hand, arm and rifle was exactly in the same place while the rifle spinning in the air. That is what is called a consistant technique and precision.

I think that reason they get upset is because a hornline and drumline is supposed to play, not dance, not pose, not emote, or tell the story through movement. I think it is short sighted to think they haven't evovled. Out of marching percussion emerged the pit. Out of the pit emerged all sorts of exotic percussion instrments and percussive props. The hornline has evolved out G keyed instruments to Bflat instruments. They now play with much more finesse than they did when I marched. The sound has mellowed, but has become much more tonally rich than it was when I marched. Just because they don't do what the guard does(thank God above) doesn't mean they have not evolved.

Narration and amps are a fundamental change to the activity. It repesents a shift from all acoustic instrumentation to electronic enhancement. It is also a slipperly slope that will require a larger and larger investment of the corps time and money to get it right. Far more than I think the powers that be really know. Those of us who work in the sound recording, sound reinforcement field will tell you that it will take far more than a couple of spaced speakers to get amps to work with the horns, drums and keyboards seamlessly. It will also take more than one person standing in the stands relaying orders to do it also.

I would actually love to see guards actually march like the corps does instead of running from set to set like chickens with their heads removed.

a couple things to touch upon. as a musician.. you need to emote through the music.. if you do not play with feeling, or dynamics, the music is bland and boring. so even though you can not see the emoting of the hornline, it is still done.

performance of the pit. same thing. how they strike the keys depends on the sound it makes. if you watch a good pit. or any keyboard player, they do not stand there motionless or emotionless.

performance in color guard seems to been seen as a comfortablilty factor. if you can perform and smile (or whatever emotion) and spin, and look comfortable while you do, it makes it look like you are better than a guard who does not show the comfortablilty to emote while spinning.

replying to the statement earlier about renegades. "there was very little dancing from the guard. or body under work"... but look how the judges viewed it. i'm not saying it's right or wrong. good or bad, but look at the placement the judges created. lack of body (no triad)= easy/easier. this is how it is judged today or viewed by the judges. look at the higher ranked groups of dca. there is more body under equipment. for example, caballeros 2003 used the triad very frequently, and did it well.

got to go back to work.. so i will have to continue another time..

[SBrancheau]

a couple things to touch upon. as a musician.. you need to emote through the music.. if you do not play with feeling, or dynamics, the music is bland and boring. so even though you can not see the emoting of the hornline, it is still done.

But, if the choreography of equipment work is done correctly, IT should do the emoting...not the person. In other words, soft dynamics, small movement or flowing equipment work...loud dynamics, big, huge movement and equipment work.

That, I think, in a nutshell, is where guards are lacking. Nowadays, the body tells the story, not the equipment work. It should be the other way around. I think it's much easier to use the body via dance, emoting, expression, etc., than to let the equipment work paint the visual picture for the music. That's where one has to get creative.

I'm not saying get rid of all dance in drum corps...but I say limit its use. It's much better served in Winter Guard.

[zackiedude]

But, if the choreography of equipment work is done correctly, IT should do the emoting...not the person. In other words, soft dynamics, small movement or flowing equipment work...loud dynamics, big, huge movement and equipment work.

That, I think, in a nutshell, is where guards are lacking. Nowadays, the body tells the story, not the equipment work. It should be the other way around. I think it's much easier to use the body via dance, emoting, expression, etc., than to let the equipment work paint the visual picture for the music. That's where one has to get creative.

I'm not saying get rid of all dance in drum corps...but I say limit its use. It's much better served in Winter Guard.

While I agree that in drum corps the equipment should do most of the emoting (and I can agree that many drum corps guards are lacking here) I think that added emotion throughout the body can be achieved through dance and make the effect more powerful.

I'm personally not a fan of only dance during huge musical effects (which we had a lot of this past summer at Scouts). I love to see loud color with loud music (which is what drum corps is about, man!). Dance can create an "oh, cool" moment or help develop a theme, but I don't think it should be reserved for huge effects (unless you're the Blue Devils and can pull off "being loud" with dance) - I hate nothing more than hearing a beautiful strong ballad with no color.

I agree with you that dance is much better served in Winter Guard.

[dugg]

where does color guard go from here?

as for indoor winter guards the future might just find designers using wall sized video projections,moniters and film.atmospheric lighting effects might also be utilized.

in order to maximize and heighten our suspension of disbeleif a huge theater curtain on the front sideline will hide the entire stage until the beginning of each guards show when it is raised and then lowered at the end of each guards program.

adjudicating will be completely annonymous and entirely computerized.judges will be able to veiw an instant replay and look specifically at sections of a guards program before giving their final score.

Edited April 22, 2006 by dugg