Where does colorguard go from here, your opinions

[rifleboypa]

Zach,

While emoting may be good for putting a performer in character, it is not very visible if you are in the stands. That makes it a wasted move. Emoting is good for WGI because you are closer to the performer and therefore the facial expression is not lost to the audience. Somethings done in WGI such as emoting or any other subtle move does not translate well to large venues such as a football fields.

After about 20 years of ballet and modern dance, colorguard needs to move on to the next phase. I think a combination of old school and new school would be an interesting direction because alot of old school moves were really quite visiual, and big in scale. You would also give something to the old school to chew on, as well as something for today's kids to learn.

i disagree with this comment made earlier. smiling not only is an expression of the face, just like being angry, but also creates or structures a body positioning, which in turn will show the character in the stands on the feild.

[deftguy]

i disagree with this comment made earlier. smiling not only is an expression of the face, just like being angry, but also creates or structures a body positioning, which in turn will show the character in the stands on the feild.

I am sure you can provide some detail on to how facial muscles effect body posture and positioning. The two are completely unrelated. They don't even share a common group of muscles. IMO smiling is nothing more than the drill teaming of colorguard. Rather than appearing strong and confident, it is just cute to smile.

Even a basic understanding of eye/brain interaction will teach you that very few people on this planet can see a smile from 50 yards away. It is virtually invisible when you are positioned in the backfield or the sides when you are sitting dead center, and in seats where a drum corps is best viewed. That is even more true in the presence of people marching, the glare from the horns, larger objects like flags, rifles, and sabres spinning. Our eyes move towards the largest object, not something that is 3 inches wide at best.

No offense to you at all so please don't take this personally. I regard your STATEMENT as nothing more than colorguard babble because scientifically it cannot be proven that a smile improves body posture.

Now in WGI a smile, and facial expression as a whole are very useful. That is because they are visible to the eye, and not an excercise in futility.

Jojo, I came to practice on Saturday. We started on the flag and rfile work on the show. Of course I remember (and did) the rifle work much better than the flag work. Lord, one day you will make me a better flag :)

[jojo]

hi all

emoting doesn't have to mean smiling (although when I'm performing it's hard to keep that off my face now -- I used to look through people (circa 1975) now I look AT them and look for a response). Emoting should be appropriate to the character though, whoever that character is and however it fits into the show concept. Dark, scary, and evil can be fun too. How about playful? Sad? Sweet? Curious?. In 2004 we goofed around with a lot of different characterizations as part of the Renegades show ... and as a consequence it was a blast to perform.

I vote for emoting. If the audience doesn't see it oh well ... it's makes performing so much more intense and fun.

and hey Terry! I was there Sunday ... missed Saturday cuz of WG champs ... I'll see ya' at the next one

[ducttapedgerbil]

Guard has transitioned from a miitary focus to a focus on dance and the body. We have now been in the era of the dance for about 20 years now, where does guard go from here? We all of this talk of innovation, isn't it about time for a change in style? Which direction would you like to see cologuards go in the future. More dance, less weapons, more props and sets, what are your ideas?

less dancing for the sake of dancing....much more work needs to be done integrating guard drill and visuals with that of what the hornline and drumline are doing(music and movement). Make sure EVERYTHING a guard does translates to the top of the stands....ie sabres are great indoors but almost useless on the field (and don't use the televised footage as an excuse...how many fans get to watch the show from the track???)

timing is also critical...and yes I know it is hard when you are 40 yards away from the hornline. But visual impacts that are half a beat late feels a bit like being carsick.

[rifleboypa]

ok.. let me rephrase things. it's not necessarily smiling. posture and presence. which could be smiling, and expression of anger, playful, joy, sad, reflectice, whatnot. it does translate to the stands. maybe not the nose bleed section, but it is visible to the stands. i have watched many shows this season from the top and have been able to see facial expressions in drum corps. many times in shows, i have stared people down in agressive parts of shows in drum corps and got reaction from those people. or made eye contact with people at sad or reflective moments.

would not emoting partain to the pit also??? or the hornline?? in this stage of color guard, without emoting or expression or dancing, it would be like a horline and drumline without dynamics. so many visual effects and dramatic moments are built due to a combination of movement and equipment layering from both the color guard and the HORNLINE.

i think it funny that we're talking about color guard evolving, and i know it's always good to go back to your roots, that was color guard basics are. they teach people to spin together, and build strength and endurance.

when people try to change and further the actual hornline or drumline, it's chaos. no one wants it to change. it was a big deal when dca corps switched to Bb horns. or people started using narration and amps in dci.

isn't the question more of when is drum corps going to catch up to the evolution of color guard?

[Sexyguardcap]

Movement- Dance will always be a big part of guard work, but I see guards becomming more theactric and acrobatic. Not quite Circue Du Soleil.

M&M- I think, like The Cadets, The guard will become more of the total picture. Not just the frame or the section that fills in the form.

Equipment- More time will be placed on flag design.( lazer printing etc..) fewer rifles, switching to S curves and arcs.

I also think guard M&M will be judged on the visual sheets, leaving the guard judge to focus on just the guard, just as the brass and percussion judges do.

[zackiedude]

I also think guard M&M will be judged on the visual sheets, leaving the guard judge to focus on just the guard, just as the brass and percussion judges do.

I would love to see this, but first there needs to be set standards of what design is effective vs. what is not. Guard judges can't even reach a consensus now and I can't imagine visual judges trying to do so. But I would love to see the guard caption become a performance caption (if we can get GE judges to "understand" guard so to speak).

[deftguy]

ok.. let me rephrase things. it's not necessarily smiling. posture and presence. which could be smiling, and expression of anger, playful, joy, sad, reflectice, whatnot. it does translate to the stands. maybe not the nose bleed section, but it is visible to the stands. i have watched many shows this season from the top and have been able to see facial expressions in drum corps. many times in shows, i have stared people down in agressive parts of shows in drum corps and got reaction from those people. or made eye contact with people at sad or reflective moments.

The Renegades 2004 show was quite an expressive show. We were asked to convey a variety of emotions on our faces throughout portions of the show to reflect the mood of the music. My best friend attended every one of our California shows that year. He sat in various positions along the 50 yard line from higher up, to down in front. He had absolutely no idea that we did any facial expressions whatsoever in our show. As a matter of fact NONE of my friends who saw our show noticed any facial expressions. This to me this is a rather weird attempt to blend WGI with DCI on the field. This is something I have never understood. What works on the basketball floor does not necessarily translate well on the field. I have no problem with emoting, smiling, or any other emotion translated to the face, but when it is largely unnoticeable, what is the purpose? I personally would like to put more emphasis as a performer on things like my timing, my footing, my posture, being comfortable with the work, and showing emotion through my work and body than try and keep a facial expression intact. I think this is majoring in minors, but that is just my opinion

would not emoting partain to the pit also??? or the hornline?? in this stage of color guard, without emoting or expression or dancing, it would be like a horline and drumline without dynamics. so many visual effects and dramatic moments are built due to a combination of movement and equipment layering from both the color guard and the HORNLINE.

This should not be the job of the pit, I think this would be carrying it just a little far. The pit is to add flexibilty and color to the percussion section. I also do not agree with you analogy about emoting in guard. The combination of big and smaller articulated moves are what creates dynamics in performance. Any facial expression is guilding the lily. Ballet and modern dancers I have seen show no facial expressions whatsoever, it is all about the body, and the dance moves the body does. The face is just one aspect of showing emotion, the body is another. I have seen guards that used no facial expressions at all, but used the body and equipment VERY effectively to convey emotion.

The Renegades colorguard's 2004 show didn't have a single dance move for most of the colorguard. There were only a very few dancers, at most I think 4. If anyone thought that show lacked dynamics, they had to have eyes on their bum.

I do not like absolutes in a art medium(i.e. you must do this, or do that or you lack this). This stifles creativity, and homogenizes the medium itself. If everyone is required to do this and that, then the only thing that will differentiate one group over another, is the costume they wear. This has been my complaint over the last three or so years watching colorguards in DCI. Most colorguard members are not professionals, so there is only so much dance technique they can injest at the level they currently are at. I am sure you will find some members that might dance professionally, however there are anywhere from 30-36 colorguard members on the field, and all of them have different levels of dance expertise. This is my problem with dance in cologuard. It is inconsistant from performer to performer(something of which most don't allow themselves to see). If I was to do my famous freeze frame test, you will find bodies and bodiy parts, rifles and flags in different places with almost no constistancy whatsoever. You have some very good dancers next to mediocre ones, and some that are just not good at all. Now go back to the seventies and look at 27th lancers or the Kingsman colorguard. Every picture that has been taken of the rifle line during a toss found that every hand, arm and rifle was exactly in the same place while the rifle spinning in the air. That is what is called a consistant technique and precision.

i think it funny that we're talking about color guard evolving, and i know it's always good to go back to your roots, that was color guard basics are. they teach people to spin together, and build strength and endurance.

when people try to change and further the actual hornline or drumline, it's chaos. no one wants it to change. it was a big deal when dca corps switched to Bb horns. or people started using narration and amps in dci.

isn't the question more of when is drum corps going to catch up to the evolution of color guard?

I think that reason they get upset is because a hornline and drumline is supposed to play, not dance, not pose, not emote, or tell the story through movement. I think it is short sighted to think they haven't evovled. Out of marching percussion emerged the pit. Out of the pit emerged all sorts of exotic percussion instrments and percussive props. The hornline has evolved out G keyed instruments to Bflat instruments. They now play with much more finesse than they did when I marched. The sound has mellowed, but has become much more tonally rich than it was when I marched. Just because they don't do what the guard does(thank God above) doesn't mean they have not evolved.

Narration and amps are a fundamental change to the activity. It repesents a shift from all acoustic instrumentation to electronic enhancement. It is also a slipperly slope that will require a larger and larger investment of the corps time and money to get it right. Far more than I think the powers that be really know. Those of us who work in the sound recording, sound reinforcement field will tell you that it will take far more than a couple of spaced speakers to get amps to work with the horns, drums and keyboards seamlessly. It will also take more than one person standing in the stands relaying orders to do it also.

I would actually love to see guards actually march like the corps does instead of running from set to set like chickens with their heads removed.

[Stick Stack]

I would actually love to see guards actually march like the corps does instead of running from set to set like chickens with their heads removed.

Which reminds me! Another big step that color guards need to do is get marching techs specifically for just the color guard to clean their feet and drill. This often gets out of control and is the most forgiveable part when it comes to cleanliness. HOWEVER! Guards look so much better when it is precise!

The marching tech needs to also have a basic understanding or be willing to learn guard feet also. All of those hops, skips, and jumps change the way the form moves!

Having someone focus solely on this really adds a new perspective to the cleaning process that is often and inciteful and refreshing.

[SBrancheau]

Ha!

Back in the day, you didn't NEED techs! The guard instructor did ALL of it...marching, equipment work...and the lack of necessity for ballet training to clean footwork was very refreshing.

Maybe that's the key...if you need a separate tech just to clean footwork, isn't that going over the line and re-evaluation of the activity needs to take place? Deftguy's comments on 27th Lancers and Anaheim Kingsmen's guards are right: they pass the "freeze frame" test, for sure!