Madison's Color Guard

[Iplaytimpani]

Seriously though,

June is the worst time to compare guard scores - it really is the the greyest area for any corps. Some guards come out ready and clean but with really easy shows. Some guards don't have complete work in, while others might have had work, but drill changes mean having to learn new work. Holes in the guard might also mean any ripple or alternate work is muddy or unclear from up top. Then there's the whole area of flags and costumes (who has them, who doesn't).

To me, June guard scores (although great to look at) don't really tell me who the best guards are just yet. There are too many variables at this point.

By mid-July is usually where we see a more definitive comparision and ranking between guards.

And - yes, I've marched in drum corps, in a top D1, and have also taught in D3, D2, and D1 - not to mention WGI

Later,

Mike

Well you're in luck Mike. According to the RCFKING rules, you are apparently allowed to offer your insight! Congratulations!!! :P

[Guardguy89]

woohoo - I feel honored :P

Later,

Mike

[The Tsar]

marching high school band is alittle dfferent than the best drum corps in the world competeing in DCI. Untill you have marched in a drum corps do not degade or critique out of yor league

RF

Baloney.

And that comes from someone who has marched before.

It's pure and utter baloney.

I'll bet you thought you were going to get a lot of back-patting agreement from FMM'ers here on DCP, didn't you?

It's this sort of elitism that has hurt drum corps more than helped it over the years.

[Orpheus]

marching high school band is alittle dfferent than the best drum corps in the world competeing in DCI. Untill you have marched in a drum corps do not degade or critique out of yor league

Aren't there judges, and occasionally even instructors, who've never marched in a DCI corps?

And I wonder, since I marched D3 (or A-60, as it was then) can I comment on D1 corps? How 'bout a guard person or drummer who has done WGI but not DCI? Can someone who marched 30 years ago comment on modern corps? Where do you draw the line?

As for Madison's guard -- I haven't seen 'em this year, so all I can say is that I hope they pull it together. I've really enjoyed 'em the past three seasons.

[vferrera]

Baloney.

And that comes from someone who has marched before.

It's pure and utter baloney.

I'll bet you thought you were going to get a lot of back-patting agreement from FMM'ers here on DCP, didn't you?

It's this sort of elitism that has hurt drum corps more than helped it over the years.

Why baloney? Do you have a counter-argument? Contradiction is not an argument ($1 to Monty Python).

Drum corps experience is much different than band. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. Don't you think your years in PR gave you a perspective that you would never have obtained in band? Of course it did.

Ideally, I think all DCI judges and instructors should have some DCI experience. It just makes sense to have actually done the job that you are asked to teach/evaluate.

I'm not saying that people's opinions aren't valid if they haven't marched in DCI (so I do disagree with RF on that point), but I do think that DCI experience gives one a perspective that cannot be obtained in any other manner.

[PhantomR]

I just read the whole thread...and in the context of the whole thing, I think that was probably directed at comments made by Conner...

I think I'll live.

~>conner

[jwscv87]

I'm not saying that people's opinions aren't valid if they haven't marched in DCI (so I do disagree with RF on that point

OK - so you disagree with RF on that point. So do I, so does Tsar... Nobody said marching doesn't afford you a unique perspective, we simply said it is ok to form an opinion even if you have not marched. I guess we agree.

[The Tsar]

Why baloney? Do you have a counter-argument? Contradiction is not an argument ($1 to Monty Python).

Drum corps experience is much different than band. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. Don't you think your years in PR gave you a perspective that you would never have obtained in band? Of course it did.

Ideally, I think all DCI judges and instructors should have some DCI experience. It just makes sense to have actually done the job that you are asked to teach/evaluate.

I'm not saying that people's opinions aren't valid if they haven't marched in DCI (so I do disagree with RF on that point), but I do think that DCI experience gives one a perspective that cannot be obtained in any other manner.

Why baloney? Because there is no SECRET about what a drum corps does. A drum corps marches to music. A marching band marches to music. The only real differences here are the instrumentations and the work ethic behind the product.

Can you tell me of aspects of a drum corps show that are so sublime and subtle that only FMM'ers can pick up on them, and not marching band alumni? Drum corps experience gave me a different perspective on MANY facets of drum corps...but on the simple act of marching and playing? No, I don't think so. I know more about the politics of DCI, I know more about living in harmony with my fellow brothers and sisters, I know more about travelling the country in cramped buses, and I know more about sleeping on gym floors than I did before I did drum corps.

But even before I marched drum corps, I knew what a clean drill was. I knew what wrong notes were. These things do not change.

I stick with my stance on this...unless you can tell me of an aspect of corps performance that would be lost on someone who has not marched. Then I might be forced to reconsider my stance, but....I can't think of any. Perhaps you can.

[xmenjeffb]

Why baloney? Because there is no SECRET about what a drum corps does. A drum corps marches to music. A marching band marches to music. The only real differences here are the instrumentations and the work ethic behind the product.

Can you tell me of aspects of a drum corps show that are so sublime and subtle that only FMM'ers can pick up on them, and not marching band alumni? Drum corps experience gave me a different perspective on MANY facets of drum corps...but on the simple act of marching and playing? No, I don't think so. I know more about the politics of DCI, I know more about living in harmony with my fellow brothers and sisters, I know more about travelling the country in cramped buses, and I know more about sleeping on gym floors than I did before I did drum corps.

Well Basicly I agree with Nick --except the only real difference is no woodwinds and tour . Many marching bands have that work ethic you mention. But it is truly tour that makes the difference.

If there are so many subtle things that only a seasoned touring member can pick up i would be very concerned. That same thought would lead me to think that only former members could attend a show also.

WOW that would mean many empty stadiums !!

As far as having to have marched or taught to judge ! NO ! We would be at a loss for many great people that judge that did not march D&B.

Does having that background help in some cases ?? YES

Required to do the job ?? NO

Just MHO

Jeff

[vferrera]

Why baloney? Because there is no SECRET about what a drum corps does. A drum corps marches to music. A marching band marches to music. The only real differences here are the instrumentations and the work ethic behind the product.

Can you tell me of aspects of a drum corps show that are so sublime and subtle that only FMM'ers can pick up on them, and not marching band alumni? Drum corps experience gave me a different perspective on MANY facets of drum corps...but on the simple act of marching and playing? No, I don't think so. I know more about the politics of DCI, I know more about living in harmony with my fellow brothers and sisters, I know more about travelling the country in cramped buses, and I know more about sleeping on gym floors than I did before I did drum corps.

But even before I marched drum corps, I knew what a clean drill was. I knew what wrong notes were. These things do not change.

I stick with my stance on this...unless you can tell me of an aspect of corps performance that would be lost on someone who has not marched. Then I might be forced to reconsider my stance, but....I can't think of any. Perhaps you can.

Judging drill is not just a matter of discriminating clean from dirty. If it were, a monkey could do it. You have to have an appreciation of the relative difficulty of different maneuvers. You can't get that from observation alone, you have to experience it.

I'm no expert in MB, but my guess is that DCI shows consistently explore levels of difficulty and kinds of difficulty that are rarely found in band shows.

When you consider multiple simultaneous demands, it becomes much trickier. You cannot appreciate how difficult it is to play a high G marching backwards at 180 bpm unless you have actually done it. Even if you have played a high G marching backwards at 120 bpm or 150 bpm, it's difficult to extrapolate because the interactions between different responsibilities can be very complex.

For me, playing second soprano was a piece of cake but playing lead was very difficult. The actual notes were only a third to a fifth higher and were easy enough standing still, but combined with the demands of marching made the overall task much harder.

Then you have to consider the performance pressure. When I marched, we had probably 15 or more competitions per year with crowds of 5000+. Then nats was usually about 20,000+ Is that typical for MB competition? I know that halftime shows can have huge crowds, but that generally is not a competition situation.

I understand that some bands may perform DCI level shows in front of large crowds, but in general I think the DCI experience is qualitatively much different than the typical MB.

p.s. I think that DCI judges should not only have DCI background, they should also be required to demonstrate performance proficiency in the captions they are judging. And wouldn't I love to be there when that happens :o

Edited June 28, 2006 by vferrera