audiodb Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Oh. I assumed that this meant there would be a "standard" setup by each show promoter:Sorry - my knowledge of how amps work is limited. As I interpreted the post where that idea originated, the objective was to provide a "standard" amplification system. I just thought it would be more practical to have DCI provide four such systems, as opposed to 100 different TEPs providing one each. I don't think the corps will go for this idea, though, as it "stifles creativity". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 As I interpreted the post where that idea originated, the objective was to provide a "standard" amplification system. I just thought it would be more practical to have DCI provide four such systems, as opposed to 100 different TEPs providing one each.I don't think the corps will go for this idea, though, as it "stifles creativity". How would a "standard" amp system work as each stadium is different in layout and size. Probably misreading "standard" so thought I'd ask... Man would amps set up for Whitewater/Gillette Stadium blow the stands back at Gettysburg or Westminster. ^0^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdisney Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Don't be surprised if in 10 years there is a standard amp rig alreayd set up at every show and the corps just plug their mics and wireless recievers into it. Along with this there would have to be a set standard for mics and output levels of said mics. This doesn't sound very practical, so I hope not. There's just way too many different show locations and show promoters. It may be more likely that in the future corps would be able to request access to the field hours in advance to setup and test their equipment, so all the levels could be checked and all the cables tested in advance. Though I hope that doesn't happen either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarContra4-85 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why is it too late? I mean that it's too late to decide not to use them for this season in a lot of cases. It's a sizable commitment to make the choice to use amplification, in the instance of the Cadets which is where this conversation started, they've designed portions around a singer and other vocals-sure they could find other ways to do this (brass w/o singer, etc) but it would also mean other changes in the show. For others it would mean changing the technique for the pit, etc. (not mentioning the loss of face in backing out of the amp game :feednotroll: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcrooks Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) I'm glad to see that, at the least, this isn't going unaddressed. And, since Hopkins does tend to lead (for good or ill depending on your view) I have a feeling other corps will pick up on whatever he does.All that said and done, Hopkins's statement really does point out the nearly unrealistic level of demand on the electronic equipment. The fact that corps have minutes to set up is going to be a hurdle that will probably plague the activity for seasons. Until there's a legislative change. Eesh. Unrealistic? It's been done in the marching band world for a LONG time very effectively. I know people hate to hear the 'b' word in a drum corps discussion, but implying that it is impossible to set up electronics in a matter of minutes isn't true. I would be more than likely to chalk this up to 'new technology' being used in the drum corps idiom, and it will take time for staff members/designers to learn how to set them up and run amplification effectively. -- doug (sorry; I accidently posted this from my wife's account) Edited June 28, 2006 by pcrooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbenburton Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 How would a "standard" amp system work as each stadium is different in layout and size.Probably misreading "standard" so thought I'd ask... Man would amps set up for Whitewater/Gillette Stadium blow the stands back at Gettysburg or Westminster. ^0^ I would think it would just be a standard mixing (Sound) board and standard amp and a snake. The corps would simply plug into the snake with whatever they have. Most snakes also have outputs for speakers, so the speakers would also plug into the snake. I do not know all of the logistics of this, but it seems to be a simple way to fix some problems. Cause then you could have the board in the stands, so that the sound man would be able to judge the best sound he or she can for that stadium's audience. And the corps would also have to use identical boards in rehearsal so they would know the specs of these boards and the sound guy, while the corps is setting up, would simply tweak the board to their own settings. I also do not know how this would stifle creativity, cause they could purchase boards with as many channels as needed, I would not think any corps would use over 25 channels, but if they do, then purchase 50, 75, whatever channel boards. And with the amp, maybe two sizes of amps, one for bigger stadiums and one for smaller stadiums, although you can turn down powerful amps, so that wouldn't be much of an issue either. Either all of that, or have a way for a staff member who is up in the stands to communicate with the staff member running the sound and tell them what needs to be turned up, down, or whatever. Cause to me the problem is that the sound people are setting it up to what sounds good to them, yet they are on the sideline and it is a far cry from what it should sound like in the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Folks let's get real here. The sound systems being used by the corps (and by the marching bands) are indeed little better than "garage band" quality. Yes, the systems are costing a few thousand dollars...most of the corps are using systems in the $5,000 - $10,000 range, but that's peanuts compared to the sound systems a professional group performing in a stadium would use. Next time you go to a stadium concert, ask the sound people what their systems cost. A cheap system would be in the $100,000 range. Can you imagine a group like Chicago performing at a football stadium and plugging in to a system like the corps are using? And before you say they've got more instruments being amplified...imagine James Taylor, with only his guitar, coming out with 2 speakers on 2 wheel push carts. To the poster that said marching bands have been doing it effectively for years. I guess it depends on your definition of effective. I've attended many BOA shows where the sound was simply pathetic. I've yet to hear a marching band use a sound system where the amplified voice or woodwinds didn't sound like cheap imitations. Portable sound systems come with limitations. The systems being used by the corps and bands simply cannot provide QUALITY. Yes, they can get loud (if you're in front of the speakers), but getting sound quality takes much more in terms of time (why professionals spend hours) and money (which most corps don't have) for proper equipment. Finally, I think the best thing that could ever happen for the anti-amp movement would be for the Cadets (or someone else) to actually get a "professional" sound man and "professional" equipment. Sooner or later the other directors, who are trying to figure out how they are going to pay for the next fuel stop, will realize...we can't compete with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 How would a "standard" amp system work as each stadium is different in layout and size. Heh - I never said it would work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I also do not know how this would stifle creativity, cause they could purchase boards with as many channels as needed, I would not think any corps would use over 25 channels, but if they do, then purchase 50, 75, whatever channel boards. And with the amp, maybe two sizes of amps, one for bigger stadiums and one for smaller stadiums, although you can turn down powerful amps, so that wouldn't be much of an issue either. Oh, I was just thinking of the wide variety of speakers corps are currently using. Adopting a standard speaker setup eliminates most of those different choices. Conversely, omitting the speakers from the standard setup leaves the corps doing just as much setup work as they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimisback Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) Folks let's get real here. The sound systems being used by the corps (and by the marching bands) are indeed little better than "garage band" quality. Yes, the systems are costing a few thousand dollars...most of the corps are using systems in the $5,000 - $10,000 range, but that's peanuts compared to the sound systems a professional group performing in a stadium would use.Next time you go to a stadium concert, ask the sound people what their systems cost. A cheap system would be in the $100,000 range. Can you imagine a group like Chicago performing at a football stadium and plugging in to a system like the corps are using? And before you say they've got more instruments being amplified...imagine James Taylor, with only his guitar, coming out with 2 speakers on 2 wheel push carts. To the poster that said marching bands have been doing it effectively for years. I guess it depends on your definition of effective. I've attended many BOA shows where the sound was simply pathetic. I've yet to hear a marching band use a sound system where the amplified voice or woodwinds didn't sound like cheap imitations. Portable sound systems come with limitations. The systems being used by the corps and bands simply cannot provide QUALITY. Yes, they can get loud (if you're in front of the speakers), but getting sound quality takes much more in terms of time (why professionals spend hours) and money (which most corps don't have) for proper equipment. Finally, I think the best thing that could ever happen for the anti-amp movement would be for the Cadets (or someone else) to actually get a "professional" sound man and "professional" equipment. Sooner or later the other directors, who are trying to figure out how they are going to pay for the next fuel stop, will realize...we can't compete with that! That being said, They should still have a #### good sound system. They are running three mics maybe 10 tops. Bands like Chicago use a sound board with, 64 channels? Or more. Quite a different thing really. My band in the 80s I think we had a 24 or 26 channel mixer. It was top of the line at that time. But much less than what the corps quality mixer would be today. Cadets probably use a 12 channel, just a guess. Depends on how much they mic. Remember, the Beatles recorded SGT. Peppers on a 4 track. 4 track recorders have been about pocket size (the size of a keyboard really) for over 2 decades now. I am just saying that with todays technology with few dollars should not have these problems. Edited June 28, 2006 by Jimisback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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