Is DCP founder George a Cadets Borg?

[MiamiSun76]

Ridiculously OT, but I had to laugh when I saw the Vice President's first name censored...

Well, in his case both the proper name and the slang term apply :P

[Blue Devil Legend]

To answer a question from earlier in this thread.............

No, the thread has not broken any DCP Guidelines, as long as the discussion stays civil, and informational,it doesn't stand a chance of being closed.

For the record, threads aren't closed due to "going against the grain", they're closed when they violate the community guidelines, which this one hasn't.

Good discussion we have here.

[sssidney]

I know I’m way over my head in this debate but why do people feel “it’s only drum corps”? Are you saying that real “art” is beyond the capabilities of the designers and performers or that drum corps itself is limited and not capable of creating/displaying art? Also criteria such as totally original music must be met to be considered a pioneer of art? I really don’t get all this.

Edited June 29, 2006 by sssidney

[bawker]

I know I’m way over my head in this debate but why do people feel “it’s only drum corps”? Are you saying that real “art” is beyond the capabilities of the designers and performers or that drum corps itself is limited and not capable of creating art? Also criteria such as totally original music must be met to be considered a pioneer of art? I really don’t get that at all.

It's all subjective, of course.

However, in this idiom...we usually see people "break ground" by trying things that haven't been done before. Yes, some of these things (vocals, concept, a "script") haven't been done before in "drum corps". However, they've certainly been around at BOA/WGI and everywhere else.

I'm not about to argue the vagaries of any drum corps show not being "art". All shows are art of their own, of course.

I woudl dare say, though, that the layman would consider something totally original in its creation as more of a striking work than a derivative of another work. (Cue the Warhol et al references, I'm prepared. :P ) Is that right? Maybe not. However, I will stand behind that statement for the sake of this dicussion. :)

When we start to ascribe amazing adjective after brilliant adjective to a not-so-new concept to the marching arts world in general and pretend that other shows are somehow less...well..."artistic", it makes you wonder if some aren't wearing blinders.

We want shows to be transcedental, to move...to inspire...to blow us away, I realize. Sometimes, though, we have to remember that despite all the librettos, meanings and intellectuallism out there within these programs...that it is just "drum corps", or else we become caught up in our own hype, so to speak.

Edited June 29, 2006 by bawker

[sssidney]

It's all subjective, of course.

However, in this idiom...we usually see people "break ground" by trying things that haven't been done before. Yes, some of these things (vocals, concept, a "script") haven't been done before in "drum corps". However, they've certainly been around at BOA/WGI and everywhere else.

I'm not about to argue the vagaries of any drum corps show not being "art". All shows are art of their own, of course.

I woudl dare say, though, that the layman would consider something totally original in its creation as more of a striking work than a derivative of another work. (Cue the Warhol et al references, I'm prepared. :P ) Is that right? Maybe not. However, I will stand behind that statement for the sake of this dicussion. :)

When we start to ascribe amazing adjective after brilliant adjective to a not-so-new concept to the marching arts world in general and pretend that other shows are somehow less...well..."artistic", it makes you wonder if some aren't wearing blinders.

We want shows to be transcedental, to move...to inspire...to blow us away, I realize. Sometimes, though, we have to remember that despite all the librettos, meanings and intellectuallism out there within these programs...that it is just "drum corps", or else we become caught up in our own hype, so to speak.

But you have to admit that some are attempting to stretch beyond the limitations of the form and others are willing to play it safe. Also when you look at other accepted art pioneers even Picasso (I’ll spare you Warhol) borrowed from art forms and used other art forms as his inspiration/launching point. Can you walk away from ‘Demoiselle d'Avignon’ and say eh, its just naked chicks wearing some African masks? Now I don’t know if we’ve seen a Picasso yet but I don’t know that I’m willing to dismiss the chance that we could. Personally I thought the SCV show from 2003 may not have been there but was heading in the right direction.

[bawker]

But you have to admit that some are attempting to stretch beyond the limitations of the form and others are willing to play it safe. Also when you look at other accepted art pioneers even Picasso (I’ll spare you Warhol) borrowed from art forms and used other art forms as his inspiration/launching point. Can you walk away from ‘Demoiselle d'Avignon’ and say eh, its just naked chicks wearing some African masks? Now I don’t know if we’ve seen a Picasso yet but I don’t know that I’m willing to dismiss the chance that we could. Personally I thought the SCV show from 2003 may not have been there but was heading in the right direction.

Yes, I certainly agree...within the barometers of what we could call the "drum corps form"...there's a steady progression from more conservative programs like Pioneer and Troopers, to the risk takers like Seattle and Cadets.

One thing about Picasso (and not to put to fine a point on it to bog us down here) is that he did a lot of classical, "straight" pieces before he went off on his own path, as you note.

In that aspect, you could say that the Cadets have earned that kind of artistic "coin of the realm" to travel these different paths as they have started to now.

My point, I suppose, is that we can't discount everyone else as simps for not appreciating a certain style of show.

Some people like to be hit over the head with a summer blockbuster...some like art house films. Both are pieces of film...pieces of art...but are judged far differently by fans of either style of filmmaking....art-house people look down on big-budget films as simple, while blockbuster fans dismiss art-house as navel-gazing.

My worry is that drum corps doesn't have a large enough base to survive such a fracturing, so there's no reason to encourage it by ascribing those same POV to our fan base. Threads that start out... confrontationally... like the original post here make it seem like that's happening.