Jester - Settling Rumors with fact

[the1gofer]

i can promise you my accounts of those experiences are entirely accurate. i can recall mr jcrews being at one of them, he knows that's exactly how it was.

but i do agree the kids are improving, indeed they are, but the management is not, and i know anyone can recognize that fact. that corps is ran more like a high school marching band than anything, and that is what appears to be their main folly. drum corps management is a business. the activity itself is sport, fun, whatever you want to call it. but those in charge of the corps are the one's who bear a responsibility to make the machine work, but that responsibility, for the second year in a row, has been neglected.

and honestly, dont feel bad for me, i got out the instant i realized the instability of the organization. feel bad for the kids who poured in hundreds of dollars and countless hours of their time just to watch it fall apart.

I never said your account wasn't accurate, I said you don't know what is happening now. None of us can live in the past, only the present. Presently the organization is undergoing changes that will hopefully change things for the better. You were not and are not in a position to see all of those things. Only time will reveal wither or not those things have the impact we hope. Again, I'm not saying your wrong. I don't agree with your interpretation of those experiences. Judging the entire organization by the first two camps is like judging War and Piece by the first two pages. It can't accurately be done. I believe your view of the events and the organizations is slightly skewed, that's all. I know I'm not completely unbiased either. I think I have a more complete picture.

But the topic seems to have changed from what I had in mind when I started. I only wanted to address the rumors that were circulating about our first two competitions. That I have done, but now it seems to have changed into something else entirely. Those who are concerned with D3 or Jester have become polarized around this topic and we have begun debating the legitimacy of our organization. We will continue to do what we are doing so long as we keep improving, after all we are teachers first. Legitimacy is something for DCI to decide and doesn’t seem to be up for debate in the forum of public opinion. I appreciate everyone’s support and I appreciate other's lack their of.

Let me share one final story that has influenced the way I look at the activity, and perhaps it will help you all understand where I am coming from. Between the end of last season and the beginning this season I was discouraged about our scores in competition. As a result of my discouragement I was debating wither or not I would continue any involvement whatsoever in the activity. So I began to express my frustration to a colleague who asked me one simple question. "Why do you judge the success or failure of an entire season based on the opinion of a few judges?" I didn't have an answer. He then told me to define my personal success and define what success for the organization. If I met that and the organization met that, why then should I be discouraged? He was rite, of course, I realized that my self-worth and the value of the organization aren’t determined by those select few individuals who are called judges, or by the many individuals who share their opinion in forms such as these. My success and our success are determined simply. Are the students getting better? I know they are, as do many of you, so I know we are becoming successful. I stated before that the competition should be a byproduct of the educational experience not the product, and I firmly hold that conviction.

Having realized how the discussion has changed from making a statement of fact to a debate on the validity of our organization I will leave this topic.

Edited July 3, 2006 by the1gofer

[Eddie]

Let me share one final story that has influenced the way I look at the activity, and perhaps it will help you all understand where I am coming from. Between the end of last season and the beginning this season I was discouraged about our scores in competition. As a result of my discouragement I was debating wither or not I would continue any involvement whatsoever in the activity. So I began to express my frustration to a colleague who asked me one simple question. "Why do you judge the success or failure of an entire season based on the opinion of a few judges?" I didn't have an answer. He then told me to define my personal success and define what success for the organization. If I met that and the organization met that, why then should I be discouraged? He was rite, of course, I realized that my self-worth and the value of the organization aren’t determined by those select few individuals who are called judges, or by the many individuals who share their opinion in forms such as these. My success and our success are determined simply. Are the students getting better? I know they are, as do many of you, so I know we are becoming successful. I stated before that the competition should be a byproduct of the educational experience not the product, and I firmly hold that conviction.

This has got to be one of (if not thee) most intelligent group of words I have seen come from anyone's keyboard here on this forum. My hat goes off to you. There are too many groups that base their success off of scores from competitions. Thank you THANK YOU... THANK YOU for these few words. Others should be taking notes here.

Edited July 3, 2006 by bari_benzo

[gdisney]

Here are my feelings about a general problem that affects Jester. I believe that Arizonans in general suffer from severe "Fair Weather Fan". Take for example our local basketball team, when they were losing no one went to their games, but when they made finals allot of fans suddenly came out of the woodworks. I believe this applies to Jester Corps as well.

Boy, if I had a nickel for everyone who, when we were starting RCR, said something like, "I'll come join...if it's good", I'd be rich. I have no idea what Jester's managerial problems are (but hey, it's a rare group that doesn't have problems somewhere!), but I do know it takes people having faith to come out and stick with it in order to make it happen.

[musicdesign]

Hi Everybody! I don't need to say anymore on this subject! This prospective Jester member just proved my point so eloquently. I'm not picking on Jester, I think this is a DCI/Division 3 problem. Jester is just one of many corps in this situation. When you here kids stating this then you know it is fact That is sad!!!!!!

I do wish Jester and all the Division 3 corps the best of luck and wish them well and I do think there are very nice People affiliated with Jester and other corps like Jason. These administrators of these corps need to rethink their philospohy and strategy for developing these corps. What they are doing is not working!

As far as the evaluation process. It is easy to pass it! I know in the past alot of corps have brought in kids as bodies just to look big for DCI but they disappear right after DCI leaves at the following camp. I've known some corps to cook there books also just to pass inspection. Yes, not all corps pass but the majority do and alot that do would not if the evaluation system was setup to be a true evaluation system. You ask the majority of people involved in the activity at the Jr. Corps level and they know that the evaluation system is flawed big time. Not that any system would be perfect but DCI can be doing a much better job of evaluating corps in general. I don't think this system was setup to be flawed as it probably looked like it would work on paper when DCI set it up but the reality is for the most part the evaluation system does not work.

ok. i'm new. and i solely joined this forum to respond to this.

my point is, is that jester is an awfully run organization. as a prospective member who attended their first two camps, i was appaled by anything associated with it managerially. i had planned on this being my first year being involved in the drum corps activity, and i was extremely excited. i had originally planned to attend the academy auditions but when i found out that they already had over 400 applicants and that there was another, smaller corps in the state, i chose that opportunity. by choosing this path, i sacrificed my opportunity to even audition for academy considering they had scheduled the jester camps on the same exact days as the academy. but at the time is seemed plausible. i had heard the jester horror stories from last year, where it was ran by a bunch of people the kids hated, and there was ultimately a revolt merely days before their scheduled tour where a majority of the corps disbanded and members of the staff left. but, this year it was supposed to be better. there was supposed to be more kids, new staff, basically a new beginning. but when i arrived at the first camp with 5 other kids from my school(by the way, we drove 4 hours to attend this camp) we were greeted by an empty building. we showed up and there was merely a small banner jester on the fence outside and we thought maybe we were in the wrong facility. but when we found it, all that was there was a director, a secretary, and a list of fees. as the camp progressed only 3 other kids showed up. that left us with a weekend long camp with half a drumline, one horn, and one guard member. there was a bit of hope with the arrival of the brass caption head and percussion caption though, who were the only members of the staff with any actual drum corps experience. we were reassured that there would be many more kids at the next camp, and we would have a better experience. this was VERY untrue. at the arrival of the second camp, we were led to maricopa high school, a high school basically in the middle of no where, this resulted in this now 5 hour drive turning into a 6 hour affair, due to fact that it was pretty much impossible not to get lost looking for the place. upon arrival, we found a secretary, a brass caption head, a brass assistant, a percussion caption head, and even more fees(by the way, both the brass assistant, and percussion caption head came with us considering they were both from our school, around 5 hours away). we were speechless. the attendance was even LOWER at this camp. and this time, there was even the absence of the director to deal with. we were stuck. there was hardly anything we could do, except cancel the camp we had already paid for halfway through.

at this point. i left the organization. but several of my friends remained and kept me up to date on the status. according to my sources, attendance at the remaining camps was basically measley. the majority of the members were kids who actually attended the high school the director was at, and that was apparently their recruitment plan. the kids worked ridiculously hard for several months, putting the show together with a small staff and fees that were amounting over 1000 dollars. the corps was promised a trip to madison over the first few months, but apparently it stopped getting talked about, and ultimately cancelled.

i felt hopeful for the remaining members considering they apparently had solid brass, guard, percussion, and front ensemble heads who were keeping the corps moving, but then i found out what i had been expecting. within a few weeks of tour, the brass, guard and percussion heads all resigned. leaving the kids helpless. several kids who had placed over 1000 dollars into this organization did not know what to do. several left, obviously some stayed. but my point is, is that these kids deserve better. when their only opportunities are a monster like academy that eats everything in its path and is largely made of either returning members or college students, or this crippled, sorry excuse for an organization known as jester, the kids are the ones being cheated. this corps needs a SERIOUS staff adjustment, and certainly a new gameplan. the executives of this organization need to give the kids who have placed such time, sacrifice, and devotion these things in return!

i wish all the jester kids the best on their tour. i just hope next year the staff actually gets it together for once.

[Maestro767]

Hi Everybody! I don't need to say anymore on this subject!

Wooohooo!

[Sayre Kulp]

GO JESTER!

[DrumCorpsMom]

I applaud Jester for working to come out.... We have all complained about the decreasing number of corps out there and someone is obviously putting in an effort to keep one more alive. There are a number of corps that are continually at the bottom of the Div III ladder, some make it up a few notches, others do not. What does happen though, is that these kids start to develop a passion for the activity that equals that of someone from a top tier Div I corps. Whether they stay with the Div III corps or move on to bigger things, they will always the hard work they put into getting the corps onto the field.

[audiodb]

Hi Everybody! I don't need to say anymore on this subject! This prospective Jester member just proved my point so eloquently. I'm not picking on Jester,

Thanks for clarifying, because your post was starting to sound gleeful....

I think this is a DCI/Division 3 problem. Jester is just one of many corps in this situation.

Oh, OK. What a relief! I thought Jester had problems, but it's really just division III....oh wait, that's 25 corps that have problems.

I do wish Jester and all the Division 3 corps the best of luck and wish them well and I do think there are very nice People affiliated with Jester and other corps like Jason. These administrators of these corps need to rethink their philospohy and strategy for developing these corps. What they are doing is not working!

Judging from the number of division III corps fielding exactly 30 members these days, you may have a point.

I would suggest, though, that you consider offering constructive criticism more often. It's not that you haven't given any ideas - just that it's been awhile since the last time you did, and some readers might lose sight of your earlier suggestions like recruiting at band shows and partnering with division I mentors.

As far as the evaluation process. It is easy to pass it! I know in the past alot of corps have brought in kids as bodies just to look big for DCI but they disappear right after DCI leaves at the following camp. I've known some corps to cook there books also just to pass inspection.

Frankly, neither of those subterfuges sounds "easy" to me. Ever try to get just one kid to spend a Saturday doing something they want no part of?

Yes, not all corps pass but the majority do

The majority fail before the visitation phase of the evaluation. Of all the, what, dozen prospective corps for 2006, I think only four made it to the point of bringing a DCI evaluator to a camp (and one of them failed said evaluation).

and alot that do would not if the evaluation system was setup to be a true evaluation system. You ask the majority of people involved in the activity at the Jr. Corps level and they know that the evaluation system is flawed big time. Not that any system would be perfect but DCI can be doing a much better job of evaluating corps in general. I don't think this system was setup to be flawed as it probably looked like it would work on paper when DCI set it up but the reality is for the most part the evaluation system does not work.

OK, I heard you. Now that you've told us (five times over) that the evaluation system is flawed, can you share with us (just once) how to improve it?

[HumphreyW3]

Read This...EVERYONE Edited July 8, 2006 by HumphreyW3

[WWonka]

Read This...EVERYONE

:P

Nice one.