MUMarchingthunder04 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Although it seems, as you have pointed out, that making the 11 or 12 spot is essential to the survival of some mid-range corps, I don't believe that makes the persuit of the 12 spot any more important than a championship race. I believe that the focus should be on the product of greatest quality. Watching mediocre groups battle it out for a finals spot doesn't seem captivating to me. Those corps are barely making finals for a reason, that being that they aren't producing shows of the highest quality. I'll be watching for the best of the best. you can have my attention once you start producing excellent shows. man some of the best shows IMO didn't even MAKE finals, such as Troopers 82, and 84. Not to mention Suncoast 82 Spirit 89 Freelancer 90....i can go on for a long time. God i hope you aren't a music educator, becasue we don't need more people thinking like you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifindnoarta Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I've read a good bit of this and the above statement is the only thing I found to be true across the board of all corps in drum corps. Staffs don't try to write bad shows, and after they've written a show they don't think it is bad. When the members are learning and performing shows they think the show they are doing is the best thing since sliced bread. I marched in a corps that climbed from 33rd my first year to 11th my last year. Each year that we got better I knew the show was better designed then the previous one, but when I was marching those previous ones I thought they were great at the time. It wasn't until I was given something better the next year that I realized our show wasn't that good the previous year. Bad shows happen, just like bad movies happen. I'm sure when the people who wrote GIGLI wrote that movie they thought they were writing a great movie, well we all know how that turned out. Not everyone can write a show good enough to win a championship. and if they do, not all corps have the talent level to perform the show well enough to win the championship. The forces that brought GIGLI into existance were well aware of the quality of the film that they were producing. They made a film of low quality only to recieve economic gain in a Capitalistic, consumer-based system. They were not intending to make great art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) man some of the best shows IMO didn't even MAKE finals, such as Troopers 82, and 84. Not to mention Suncoast 82 Spirit 89 Freelancer 90....i can go on for a long time. BK '02 & '03! Les Etoiles '96 & '98! Esperanza '04! Edited July 7, 2006 by Maedhros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUMarchingthunder04 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Actually we (The Troopers) made finals in '81. 12th, but still made finals. Not saying I didn't have a good experience the years I marched corps and didn't make finals, but it is after all a competative sport...and a few years later, it still matters enough to write this post to clarify an incorrect statement. :) well if you were in troopers those non finals years, you guys had some great shows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Shakespeare once wrote that, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." (Macbeth, Act V, Scene V). Your choice of a quote by the character Macbeth is significant. Let's examine Macbeth's predicament. Macbeth really wants to be king. Encouraged by his wife, he sets out to kill everyone between him and the throne. But why does he want to be king? We never see his ultimate motive. If we studied this play in high school, we were perhaps told that Macbeth's "tragic flaw" is his "vaulting ambition," but the text gives us no more than that. It is interesting that someone should desire so much to be king without any specific attachment to the various obligations, duties, ceremonies, and practicalities of rule. It is likely that Macbeth is attracted toa general idea of Kingness, an aura that surrounds his nation's highest office. He is willing to sacrifice everything it means to be a king in order to be a "king" and thus he fails. When he delivers the quote above everything around him is unravelling, the result of his making bad choices throughout the entire play. How much credibility of worldview should we grant to someone in such a situation? It is possible to read Macbeth as a dramatization of extreme positivism. If you meant to use the quote as a mocking illustration of my own viewpoint, I think you've erred - unlike Macbeth, I do not dismiss the "sound and fury"; instead I hold it up as the only thing that is important. Live performance is, in my opinion, the best thing humans can do. It only "signif[ies] nothing" from an extremely reductive angle, an angle from which no show is at all important. From there, the only thing left is the bonding and the growth, so it makes sense that someone perhaps disappointed with the performance level of their would latch onto something that transcends how good they are as a corps and instead affirms their inherent goodness as people, which was probably never in question in the first place. I resent your assumption that I haven't marched. I have, in a show that was excellently designed but never fully cleaned. My corps is in kind of a unique organizational situation and a full discussion of it is a matter for another thread (when I"ve tried to bring it up on other forums it generates a lot of hostility). I've noticed a pattern on this forum by which anyone who is critical of the current state of drum corps is seen as cynical, hostile, disrespectful towards the kids, and unfeeling. I make my criticisms because I am passionate about drum corps. I believe that the activity is not as good as it could be and want to make it better, a stance I would classify as idealistic. I no longer march with my old corps because they stopped showing a commitment to excellence. Those who wish to keep marching on a sinking ship filled with kids and staff that don't know how to rehearse are free to do so, but I don't consider them in any way noble for it. I care about good shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 When the members are learning and performing shows they think the show they are doing is the best thing since sliced bread. Not sure that's always true ... ever spoken with anyone who marched in Suncoast Sound's "My Fair Lady" show back in '87? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Here's some observations after reading this thread...The four seasons I marched (4 different corps) we placed 44th, 22nd, 13th and 9th The corps that worked hardest were the ones that placed 44th and 13th The corps with the best financial situations at the time were the 22nd and 9th The corps that still exist today are the 44th and 13th The corps who have the most total finals apperances to date are the 44th and the 13th Correllate THAT.... Also, still having 12 in finals when there's only twice that number in the whole division seems pretty silly. When we placed 44th we were far from last among the number of corps that even came to DCI, (which itself was a minority at the time). I don't mind watching any level of corps compete as long as they're not exhibiting activity-killing behaviors (like using microphones or whoring for the fascist corporate greed-mongers like yamaha or having the guard writhe around on the ground dressed in random florescent tatters rather than dressing like humans and throwing tricks ), but those are other threads....... Got tired reading thru all the pages and wanted to respond to this one. Have the same thoughts and I marched Senior corps when all corps were in the same grouping. We were 15 out of 15, 15 out of 19, 11, 10, 9, 6 in my first go 'round. Back then best reason to shoot for (DCA) Finals was to become a full member and have more offers to appear at DCA shows which paid better. Still a lot of entertaining corps but mostly talent level and amount of money held them back. Today DCA (finally) has their version of Div II and the top 2 or 3 corps compete at Finals which shows people how entertaining the smaller corps can be. Maybe it's in a page I haven't seen yet but another reason for making Finals is the publicity the corps gets on the telecast. Supposedly the DCI ESPN telecast is targeted for young people who know next to nothing about corps. Simply put if you make 12 your corps and location gets mentioned to the newbies, if you make 13 or lower you don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Any corps that does not produce an excellent show. Are you serious? Did you actually just say that? So...we are to rely on your opinion then on what an excellent show is? Once again, a show that YOU may not find to be excellent, may been seen as such by someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 OOC, what corps in DCI can you name in which the members and staffs don't try to do the best they can? Any corps that does not produce an excellent show. That statement is essentially meaningless unless you put it into some kind of context. Please define "excellent." Are you just saying that any corps outside of the top 3, or top 6 or 12 (or whatever) should just give up and go home, then? If so, then let me tell you -- that attitude (IMHO) has absolutely no place in this activity. Not everyone can be the Blue Devils. Having won a championship or made finals in no way makes your DCI experience more valid than anyone elses. I admire kids who march Southwind or Pioneer or East Coast Jazz just as much as kids who march Cadets or BD, sometimes moreso. Doing it because you love it, even though you know you're not going to win, is at least as praiseworthy as shooting for a ring. Not every potential member is able to (or sometimes even wants to) march in a top-5 caliber corps. Not every staff can put together a show that will maximize the sheets like the Cavies do. I fail to see why that makes their experience any less valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) Any corps that does not produce an excellent show. Note - in response to Orpheus question : OOC, what corps in DCI can you name in which the members and staffs don't try to do the best they can? Been in some bad corps my first few years and it was lack of experience and lack of $$$ to buy better music/staff/etc that hurt us. We worked our butts off but had a longer road to put on a great show due to the inexperience. Not doing the best we can my ###!. We called it building for the future and some members of the top corps even told us we were going about it the right way. (Edit: Forgot my first year we had a late start putting a inactive corps back on the field - talk about working hard knowing the scores will suck.) Brings up a question of being a "fan" of any activity. Have a friend who only watches NFL or Top 20 College football and considers himself a football fan. Have another friend who watchs all levels of baseball (down to T-ball with 6 year olds) and considers himself a baseball fan. Neither one is wrong but the difference is they respect the others definition of being a fan. Edited July 7, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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