The 2006 Madison Scouts New Ending ..YAWN

[vferrera]

1990 - Remembrance was awesome!

I marched in Scouts from 1978-1983. We had several non-alums on staff, including, believe it or not, a WOMAN. Yes, a real live female! She was from Anaheim and worked with the guard in 1978.

The attitude back then was to be entertaining AND competitive. If we needed to bring in someone from the outside, we did it. Fred Sanford worked with the drumline in 1978. Gary Czapinski wrote the drill that year and Jim Ott did some of the music. That's 3 outsiders in key "design" positions and yet the result was distinctly MADISON.

The key to the Scout identity in the 80s and 90s was not having an all-alumni staff (there are positives and negatives about that), but having one guy at the top who was responsible for the direction and image of the corps. The current leadership has made some positive changes, but it is time for them to re-evaluate where they are going with the musical identity of the corps.

[mrbitz]

I marched the 1991 season. I know for a fact that the drum staff was not all Scouts back then. Jeff Moore was from SCV and Lee Beddis was from Cadets. I know Jeff stayed for something like 11 years. Colin (Perc Caption Head) is from Boston and SCV and Beddis is now back. I met Colin and some of the drum staff over the past years, I thought their intentions were in the right place. Scott Borema is still there (Horns) and he is still doing a great job in my opinion.

As for Sal, I think he is doing a great job. I'm pretty sure after the 2002 season, the Board Of Directors said we want the corps back in top 12. So Sal put together a staff to do just that. The staff is very talented and competent. New ideas or fresh blood is not always selling out or a bad idea.

When I watched the show in Madison last Sunday, the electricity of the guys taking the field was no different than any other year. I don’t care for the uniforms, but I tell you this…if they were wearing white pants with the green strip down the leg….they would have looked horrible. The dark pants really hides people out of step or timing issues. The Fleur de Leis on the uniform, although a cool idea, cannot be seen from the stands. Madison West is a relatively small stadium, so I doubt you will even be able to see them at Camp Randall. I am very partial to the 1986-2002 uniforms. I grew up watching those uniforms and later marched in one. But I am accepting the 2006 versions as hard as that may be.

After my long rambling, the older I get, the harder it is for me to accept change. I know this so I try harder to do so. I think the Corps will do fine. I agree that it is what is inside the uniform is more important than what is on the outside. I also agree that the staff attitude has changed for the better since the 2002 season.

I hope the guys step it up. There is a lot of room for growth with that show. They have got time to do it. They have got talent to do it. I can’t wait until August 10th.

Mike

MYNWA

[lnavis]

I for one hope that Sal and the rest of the staff DO NOT let the guys who are on the field in practice right now see and read this forum........Although I'm not a former Scout I once stood beside you in retreat.......I always thouhgt that the brotherhood was something very special that you carried on and off the field with you.......reguardless of what your brothers of today look and sound like I can't beleive some of the things that are being said by the almus in this forum......I have to wonder if the guys that are puttung on the uniform night after night feel that this season they are Walking alone.....JMO

AMEN!

[MUMarchingthunder04]

I had a friend march madison in 2004 and i've liked madison since i first saw them in 1994. Good luck to them again this year, shame i won't see them live.

[MaxwellNotes]

The Madison Scouts were my first love in drum corps.

I never marched.

Never knew anyone in the corps while marching.

Never wanted to try out.

Never talked to anyone in the corps until I was a staff member years later.

Over the years I met and spoke with Scott Stewart -- many times out of respect. Perhaps a kid was considering both corps (Colts or Madison), and we'd put our heads together about what might be in the best interests of all. Once, out of respect, when the Colts were considering doing "Rhapsody In Blue", I called Scott to ask his opinion -- and make sure Madison wasn't planning on something similar that season.

I've met and shared some laughs with many of the staff over the years. . . mostly in the 90's. No list. . . just a lot of great people. All come from a similar place philosophically.

One thing has remained constant for me: I don't care where the Scouts place -- I only want to be entertained. And for many years they did exactly that -- because they played melodies and had great soprano lines/soloists.

Today not so much.

Trying to play the game has taken away the power and presense of the corps in my opinion. They tried it once in 1983, and again in 1986, and again in 2000. All with less than spectacular results.

Same thing happens to Crossmen when they abandon jazz.

The Madison Scouts are a more successful version of the Troopers now. . . in the sense that they get stuck. . . with the burden of a style or an image, and then feel obligated to remain there. Currently, the corps is still desperately trying to relive the 94 - 97 seasons. . . but there are no Latin licks left to explore.

Uniform change? While not my favorite, maybe some like it?

I think what you're going to see in Madison this year will remind people what everyone seemed to love about the Scouts. . . when you see the Alumni corps.

Can the Scouts regroup? Rekindle? Do they need Alum on the staff?

Answers: Yes. Yes. No -- they need people who are inspired, and can meld the old and the new of what drum corps is.

Does the instrumentation matter? No.

I love the old Scouts. . . 1980, 1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1988, 1992, 1995, 1997, 1999. . . not so much anymore.

But then again. . . I can say the same thing about Spirit. . . Colts. . . Blue Devils. . . Santa Clara. . . so maybe it's just an era thing.

I tell you one thing. . . it's been very enlightening and refreshing to get out of the grind of being on the road, living daily in the false world of staff impressions and ambitions, and getting back into the role of a fan.

I hope the Scouts become great AND universally entertaining again in the future. Melody is always the key. . . always.

Chuck Naffier

Madison Scout Fan for a long time. . .

Chuck, as usual your insight in bang on, and your words ring very true. Great post!

[Ben]

i saw the old ending a couple weeks ago. will be in dubuque tonight to see the new one. stay tuned i guess :P

[BigBadMadMan]

I know Sal Salas marched with the Scouts and maybe his alumni status should get revoked. Well.... no thats not fair of me, he seems like he is a good man.

When I marched it was unthinkable to have someone on staff that was not an alumni and considering the corps has two World Championships under that school of thought, it is not a terrible way of doing things. Most of the boys that join the Scouts leave as very talented men and are more then capable to be on both the design teams and technical staffs. They pass on the "first hand experiences" to the current members and that is what I believed made the Scouts special.

I know there are alums on the staff, but the design team has non-alums that is changing what feel of the Madison Scouts.

before you get too far ahead of yourself there chief, the BAD thing about having an "all-alum" staff is that you develop a "stagnant pool" of creativity. Let me ask you, what alums in recent memory could put out the drumline that Colin McNutt has churned out in the past 3 years? When was the last time the Scouts drumline even BEAT the Cavies drumline prior to last year?? Or maybe we should go back to the "hey let's pull out the '83 show and do it again" mentality. The thing is, what was great about the '95 or the '97 show is that they were original. They were fresh...fun...new...not what we had seen before. 2000-2002 eh...not so much. Serious turn in '95 that started the gradual (at first) slide out of finals. People knew that the Scouts didn't want to compete. They just wanted to do whatever they wanted to do. Problem is, the kids heard this too, and the talent they were able to draw took a serious nose-dive.

Bottom line, if you're not willing to bring in fresh faces with fresh ideas, then, in the public's eyes, you become "that corps that keeps reliving their glory days over and over". You're basing your impression on 1 show....1 season. I was on tour last summer and I saw plenty of great crowd response for the Scouts. Plenty of "jump out of your seat" reactions. I'm sure they'll do something like that again next year. I suggest that instead of jumping on here and tell them how they're doing everything wrong, you just sit back, shut up, and enjoy the show (or don't). But don't come on here and make the members feel badly seeing that even their older brothers don't support them.

[prodigital]

before you get too far ahead of yourself there chief, the BAD thing about having an "all-alum" staff is that you develop a "stagnant pool" of creativity. Let me ask you, what alums in recent memory could put out the drumline that Colin McNutt has churned out in the past 3 years? When was the last time the Scouts drumline even BEAT the Cavies drumline prior to last year?? Or maybe we should go back to the "hey let's pull out the '83 show and do it again" mentality. The thing is, what was great about the '95 or the '97 show is that they were original. They were fresh...fun...new...not what we had seen before. 2000-2002 eh...not so much. Serious turn in '95 that started the gradual (at first) slide out of finals. People knew that the Scouts didn't want to compete. They just wanted to do whatever they wanted to do. Problem is, the kids heard this too, and the talent they were able to draw took a serious nose-dive.

Bottom line, if you're not willing to bring in fresh faces with fresh ideas, then, in the public's eyes, you become "that corps that keeps reliving their glory days over and over". You're basing your impression on 1 show....1 season. I was on tour last summer and I saw plenty of great crowd response for the Scouts. Plenty of "jump out of your seat" reactions. I'm sure they'll do something like that again next year. I suggest that instead of jumping on here and tell them how they're doing everything wrong, you just sit back, shut up, and enjoy the show (or don't). But don't come on here and make the members feel badly seeing that even their older brothers don't support them.

So what you are saying is that I should not expect more from the corps design, that I must keep my mouth shut. I know an "all-alumni" is not the answer, I marched in 1990, believe me I know.

I support the current members and that is why I am upset with the 2006 show, they deserve the very best efforts from the staff and it doesn't appear to me that is what they got this year.

[BigBadMadMan]

So what you are saying is that I should not expect more from the corps design, that I must keep my mouth shut. I know an "all-alumni" is not the answer, I marched in 1990, believe me I know.

I support the current members and that is why I am upset with the 2006 show, they deserve the very best efforts from the staff and it doesn't appear to me that is what they got this year.

but therein lies our disagreement. When you say they aren't getting the "best" efforts from the staff, then I whole-heartedly disagree. Ya, I guess Colin's top 3-5 drumline isn't his "best" effort. You're acting like the Scouts have never had bad show design over the past...ooooooh...30+ years. C'mon...we BOTH know that's not true. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Sometimes you put together the "perfect storm" of a drum corps show (i.e. '95) and sometimes you fizzle out ('01). Does that mean we should be forcasting gloom and doom and crying "woe is me" just because they aren't doing a show that you personally love? Not at all! They Scouts haven't followed one set tradition over their history. Whether it was show tunes, pop tunes, symphonic jazz, big band, latin jazz, classical, etc...it was STILL the Madison Scouts...but they didn't win every single year, so every single design wasn't a homerun. If you think this is a bad show design year, then so be it. That's fine. But even when I really disliked the show (2000, 2001, 2004), I still went to rehearsal and encouraged the guys...I still went to shows and screamed my ### off...I still went to the busses after the show to pat the guys on the back and tell them what heroes I thought they were and how proud of them I was. Not because I thought the show was anything better than a turd laid on the 50, but because that's what they deserved from me.

You're singling out this show...if you think it's bad, that's your opinion to have. But don't be offended when it's not one that I share. Are these the Scouts that I marched with? nope... Are they everything that I wish they would be? Nope... Am I happy with MOST of their choices and direction? An emphatic YES!! Times change friend...

Edited July 7, 2006 by BigBadMadMan

[prodigital]

but therein lies our disagreement. When you say they aren't getting the "best" efforts from the staff, then I whole-heartedly disagree. Ya, I guess Colin's top 3-5 drumline isn't his "best" effort. You're acting like the Scouts have never had bad show design over the past...ooooooh...30+ years. C'mon...we BOTH know that's not true. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Sometimes you put together the "perfect storm" of a drum corps show (i.e. '95) and sometimes you fizzle out ('01). Does that mean we should be forcasting gloom and doom and crying "woe is me" just because they aren't doing a show that you personally love? Not at all! They Scouts haven't followed one set tradition over their history. Whether it was show tunes, pop tunes, symphonic jazz, big band, latin jazz, classical, etc...it was STILL the Madison Scouts...but they didn't win every single year, so every single design wasn't a homerun. If you think this is a bad show design year, then so be it. That's fine. But even when I really disliked the show (2000, 2001, 2004), I still went to rehearsal and encouraged the guys...I still went to shows and screamed my ### off...I still went to the busses after the show to pat the guys on the back and tell them what heroes I thought they were and how proud of them I was. Not because I thought the show was anything better than a turd laid on the 50, but because that's what they deserved from me.

You're singling out this show...if you think it's bad, that's your opinion to have. But don't be offended when it's not one that I share. Are these the Scouts that I marched with? nope... Are they everything that I wish they would be? Nope... Am I happy with MOST of their choices and direction? An emphatic YES!! Times change friend...

YES, I am singling out one show!! This show will be the last for many of these members and it isn't right! Every member, every year should get the very BEST EFFORTS from that years staff, NO EXCEPTIONS!