Can someone explain?

[sburstall]

I have to say that having marched the East Coast DCA circuit last year and now having spent three weeks on the West Coast with the Renegades, that the scores make absolutely no sense to me.

But I kinda like this whole stealth thing more and more

The Stealthmen are performing?? Where did you see them?? :P

[CallipygianKing]

Some of us corps that only perform during those months might tend to disagree.

That's why I said Midwest corps. Specifically, the 3 Minnesota corps.

[CozyChopsCom]

<snip>

But due to regional and other differences, we should never conclude that a 79 performance on the west coast would be a 79 everywhere else ....

I am sure the DCA corps are pleased 1) to have the cooperation of the DCI regions (thanks to the efforts of people on both coasts), 2) to receive judges' evaluations earlier in the season than they would otherwise have, and 3) to be able to build better schedules with more contests.

<snip>

It would be hard to imagine a day when the scores nationwide are comparable. Isn't that part of the intrigue of the activity?

Stephan,

Well put. Most of us know it's nailing jelly to a tree to try to compare scores from various shows, especially with judging panels on opposite coasts. Yet, we do it anyway, making it part of the "fun" of corps.

I had such a fact-finding, informative trip to the Left Coast. Some of the judges, DCI officials and I had long chats about the scoring sheets, giving me a lot to report back. Comparing notes with Vic Kulinski, Jr. and more since my return, I feel the whole process is still not perfect, but is certainly a work in increasing progress.

Stephan and others have posted eloquently that this is a learning process for all. Keep in mind that no one should complain about any "DC this" or DC that" association. There is no formal agreeement. It is done as a courtesy by DCI to judge on DCA sheets. We should go out of our way to thank DCI for cooperating.

Many, including me, have been unhappy when DCA corps were judged on DII/III sheets. It can still happen in the next month as there is, I now know, a huge timing issue that I'm not going to get into here. If you are connected to a DCA staff, I refer you to Peashey's post on a similar thread: Carry DCA scoring sheets with you, seek out the judges early on, and be prepared to hand them a manila envelope of proper sheets if needed. I'll add one precaution to that, which I'm so delighted that I pushed recently: If told your DCA corps will be on DCA sheets that show, politely ask to see those sheets. 'Nuff said.

I expect this procedure will improve by leaps and bounds next year if the cooperation continues. I've been told how many judges attended the DCA scoring sheets clinic -- It was a sizeable number, and I expect the numbers and the clinic process will improve.

When talking to any official, please do so with respect and be hospitable.

[K2SMA]

First, thanks to all for the comments (and compliments where appropriate).

Some of us have been fighting the DCA/DCI or DCA/RCA or DCA/ICA or DCA/DCM (ad nauseum) "Score Wars" for WAY too many years, LOL! But what's most important in all of this is that everyone is now pulling on the same end of the rope. The biggest compliments should go to those who have worked long and hard to make these HUGE strides in a very short period of time. And it WILL get better!

DCI, in giving wider recognition to the fact there IS life in drum corps after age 22, has opened the door to a much wider range of opportunities to promote and grow the all-age activity, at a time when it is becoming increasingly difficult to get a product out on the field. A look at fuel prices will confirm this.

DCA, by embracing the smaller corps in the class "A" category, has improved the quality of that facet of the activity by providing a competitve forum for it. The quality of 14th place performances now compared to, say, 1975 is, well, there IS no comparison. One could take the position that DCA has helped itself, and I laud them for doing so.

But this isn't really news to anyone. All one needs to do is attend DCI Division II and III prelims so see how GOOD and how competitive these units are -- just because DCI provided the forum for them to do so! In my mind, Roman Blenski (who himself has been a HUGE supporter of all-age drum corps in all the years I have known him) deserves 100% of the credit for that growth.

What worries me most at the moment, is what our current economy may do to this growth trend over the next few years. Drum corps, like so many other "hobbies" (and I use that word carefully!), is fast becoming a rich man's game. With so many costs of living on the upswing (health care, insurance, travel, housing, et al), we need to develop more viable contests and paying performance opportunities to help moderate travel and membership cost increases.

That may be the next major challenge to this activity.

Edited July 18, 2006 by K2SMA

[K2SMA]

Comparing notes with Vic Kulinski, Jr....

Oh, Cozy, you been hangin' out with HIM?!? Well, that explains a LOT, LOL!

Edited July 18, 2006 by K2SMA

[K2SMA]

...people will probably be paying close attention to the August 19 & 20 shows in Minnesota... The first DCA-C shows. I smell hot competition on the horizon.

Matthew, we do too, and we are really looking forward to the trip and being a part of it!

[CozyChopsCom]

<snip>DCA, by embracing the smaller corps in the class "A" category, has improved the quality of that facet of the activity by providing a competitve forum for it. <snip>

All one needs to do is attend DCI Division II and III prelims so see how GOOD and how competitive these units are -- just because DCI provided the forum for them to do so! In my mind, Roman Blenski (who himself has been a HUGE supporter of all-age drum corps in all the years I have known him) deserves 100% of the credit for that growth.

What worries me most at the moment, is what our current economy may do to this growth trend over the next few years. Drum corps, like so many other "hobbies" (and I use that word carefully!), is fast becoming a rich man's game. With so many costs of living on the upswing (health care, insurance, travel, housing, et al), we need to develop more viable contests and paying performance opportunities to help moderate travel and membership cost increases.

That may be the next major challenge to this activity.

Stephan,

I'm proud of DCA's recent approach to the Class A activity. It is a huge boost.

Roman? Yep, I agree with gusto that Roman, Sue Blenski and Murray Davis have done so much for all corps, especially the smaller corps and all-age corps. I'll always miss working and marching in DCM contests.

Current economy? Wow! You've gone from DCA scoring sheets, a major issue, to $$$, the aorta of today's drum corps. When the subjects of touring, distance, how much to tour, shrinking availability of local shows and corps...ah, heck, any-key, amps, size of corps, buses, etc. comes up, today's budget requirements is my number one concern, before tradition or what I like to see in corps. Even with design concepts, my first concern is selling tickets to fan$ that want to see these shows.

Liability insurance, travel insurance, lack of housing, skyrocketing diesel prices, are much bigger headaches than merely asking to see the DCA scoring sheets, seeing all-age corps names printed on DII/III sheets, then having to scramble to fix it.

Oh, Cozy, you been hangin' out with HIM?!? Well, that explains a LOT, LOL!

It was more fun to get Vic's slant on Bridgemen at Bridgeport than to discuss judging. Vic is a great guy, worthy of razzing. I chuckled at that ol' tenor pic of him on another thread.

[Jeff Ream]

remember, DCI didn't have to do this. but they did. and, IMO, it's better than what was. change doesnt happen overnight, and change that makes sense, implemented over time is what's going to help DCA grow the RIGHT way

[K2SMA]

Current economy? Wow! You've gone from DCA scoring sheets, a major issue, to $$$, the aorta of today's drum corps. When the subjects of touring, distance, how much to tour, shrinking availability of local shows and corps...ah, heck, any-key, amps, size of corps, buses, etc. comes up, today's budget requirements is my number one concern, before tradition or what I like to see in corps. Even with design concepts, my first concern is selling tickets to fan$ that want to see these shows.

Yeah, I apologize for getting off-topic there. But I was trying to point out exactly the concept you picked up...

IMHO, "...the aorta of today's drum corps" is a LOT more important than any petty bickering over those other things. Ticket sales, funding, blood flow. And while the generous participation of A.J. Wright and the equipment manufacturers and distributors (Dynasty, Pearl, etc.) is greatly appreciated, we need more shows and more people putting their shoulder to the wheel to develop them and get fannies in the seats.

The idea has crossed my mind several times since I've been out here in the Midwest about putting together a business consortium to promote and develop contests for DCA Central, DCA South, and anyone else who would want/need a "business agent" to establish and run new shows. But let's save that for another thread when my brain isn't already halfway up I-81 to this weekend's contest.

Oh and incidentally, it's my guess that more DCA shows in the midwest and south would probably make it easier to put together a pool of judges to help bring what has already been discussed -- consistency in the use of DCA sheets -- closer to reality.

(Now, to figure out a way to do that AND keep up the mortgage and retirement fund payments...!)

Edited July 18, 2006 by K2SMA