Can someone explain?

[#1PhantomPhan]

Okay, so I am sure this topic has been hashed out before, so forgive me if I am rekindling an old thread.

This is my first year marching with a senior corps. (I am having the time of my life, and have the bruises to prove it! Silly Sabre!) And I am confused about the DCI judges using DCA sheets and hearing that they aren't well trained on the sheets, and I know this happens out here on the west coast, since we are "allowed" to attend DCI shows as we have no DCA sanctioned shows... but am wondering if this happens back east?

Clarification would be much appriciated!

PS, hope you are all (Dream, Renegades and RCR) are having fun at the senior corps mixer tonight in Sunnyvale. Thank goodness we don't have rehearsal tomorrow! :P

[Toby]

Uh...MBI, Chops, Govies, and Kilties perform at DCI shows in the midwest. MCL has performed at Sevierville, TN and Lexington, KY DCI shows...

I do believe the Bridgemen Alumni are performing/performed tonight at Wildwood, NJ.

[K2SMA]

...And I am confused about the DCI judges using DCA sheets and hearing that they aren't well trained on the sheets, and I know this happens out here on the west coast, since we are "allowed" to attend DCI shows as we have no DCA sanctioned shows... but am wondering if this happens back east?

Clarification would be much appriciated!

Hope I can shed some light on this. Perhaps Fred Windish and others will add some posts.

In the northeast where DCA has its traditional roots and activity/fan base, there has not been a need for combined panels, although there have, in the past, been some DCI-DCA shows using combined panels and some using separate panels. In those few contests today, it would be likely to expect separate panels and sheets, using judges accepted by both associations, in an effort to reduce sponsorship costs.

With the creation of the DCA South and DCA Central regions and the current growth of the all-age activity, all-age corps are seeking more contests in which to enter prior to the annual DCA Championship since travel to the northeast has become increasingly expensive.

DCA South shows have relied predominantly on judging panels from the northeast, using DCA sheets. DCA Central and the California corps, on the other hand, have worked closely with DCI Central and DCI Pacific to have all-age corps judged on DCA sheets -- at least in those contests where there have been more than one all-age corps.

Since this is a fairly new development, there are obviously some minor "bugs" in this syetem, none the least of which is the clinicing (is that a word?) of DCI judges on DCA judging techniques. Certainly this is an effort to allow non-northeast corps to get an evaluation and a final number comparable to what would be received with a full DCA panel. (You'll note on the DCA recaps that there are fewer judges at these non-northeast contests, due to the differences in the judging system, number of judges, etc.)

But due to regional and other differences, we should never conclude that a 79 performance on the west coast would be a 79 everywhere else (much like the perceived difference a few years ago of a National League strike vs. an American League strike in baseball).

I am sure the DCA corps are pleased 1) to have the cooperation of the DCI regions (thanks to the efforts of people on both coasts), 2) to receive judges' evaluations earlier in the season than they would otherwise have, and 3) to be able to build better schedules with more contests.

Here in the Midwest, MCL, Govies, Kilties, and others are members of DCI Central while recognizing that it is a circuit of junior corps, catering MOSTLY to their needs. I am certain that similar a relationship exists between/among Renegades, RCR, Dream, and DCI Pacific. It's not a perfect system, but both sides are working hard to make sure it works. Rather than harp on the negatives or problems, better we celebrate the new spirit of cooperation between DCI and DCA. It's a win-win for both the circuits and their junior and all-age member corps.

It would be hard to imagine a day when the scores nationwide are comparable. Isn't that part of the intrigue of the activity?

Edited July 16, 2006 by K2SMA

[Julie Holmen]

Stephan, well put!

Edited July 16, 2006 by Julie Holmen

[drumcorpsmama]

Hope I can shed some light on this. Perhaps Fred Windish and others will add some posts.

In the northeast where DCA has its traditional roots and activity/fan base, there has not been a need for combined panels, although there have, in the past, been some DCI-DCA shows using combined panels and some using separate panels. In those few contests today, it would be likely to expect separate panels and sheets, using judges accepted by both associations, in an effort to reduce sponsorship costs.

With the creation of the DCA South and DCA Central regions and the current growth of the all-age activity, all-age corps are seeking more contests in which to enter prior to the annual DCA Championship since travel to the northeast has become increasingly expensive.

DCA South shows have relied predominantly on judging panels from the northeast, using DCA sheets. DCA Central and the California corps, on the other hand, have worked closely with DCI Central and DCI Pacific to have all-age corps judged on DCA sheets -- at least in those contests where there have been more than one all-age corps.

Since this is a fairly new development, there are obviously some minor "bugs" in this syetem, none the least of which is the clinicing (is that a word?) of DCI judges on DCA judging techniques. Certainly this is an effort to allow non-northeast corps to get an evaluation and a final number comparable to what would be received with a full DCA panel. (You'll note on the DCA recaps that there are fewer judges at these non-northeast contests, due to the differences in the judging system, number of judges, etc.)

But due to regional and other differences, we should never conclude that a 79 performance on the west coast would be a 79 everywhere else (much like the perceived difference a few years ago of a National League strike vs. an American League strike in baseball).

I am sure the DCA corps are pleased 1) to have the cooperation of the DCI regions (thanks to the efforts of people on both coasts), 2) to receive judges' evaluations earlier in the season than they would otherwise have, and 3) to be able to build better schedules with more contests.

Here in the Midwest, MCL, Govies, Kilties, and others are members of DCI Central while recognizing that it is a circuit of junior corps, catering MOSTLY to their needs. I am certain that similar a relationship exists between/among Renegades, RCR, Dream, and DCI Pacific. It's not a perfect system, but both sides are working hard to make sure it works. Rather than harp on the negatives or problems, better we celebrate the new spirit of cooperation between DCI and DCA. It's a win-win for both the circuits and their junior and all-age member corps.

It would be hard to imagine a day when the scores nationwide are comparable. Isn't that part of the intrigue of the activity?

Ditto with what Julie said

Ann

[SaraNYC]

I have to say that having marched the East Coast DCA circuit last year and now having spent three weeks on the West Coast with the Renegades, that the scores make absolutely no sense to me.

But I kinda like this whole stealth thing more and more

Edited July 17, 2006 by SaraNYC

[Jeff Ream]

Hope I can shed some light on this. Perhaps Fred Windish and others will add some posts.

In the northeast where DCA has its traditional roots and activity/fan base, there has not been a need for combined panels, although there have, in the past, been some DCI-DCA shows using combined panels and some using separate panels. In those few contests today, it would be likely to expect separate panels and sheets, using judges accepted by both associations, in an effort to reduce sponsorship costs.

With the creation of the DCA South and DCA Central regions and the current growth of the all-age activity, all-age corps are seeking more contests in which to enter prior to the annual DCA Championship since travel to the northeast has become increasingly expensive.

DCA South shows have relied predominantly on judging panels from the northeast, using DCA sheets. DCA Central and the California corps, on the other hand, have worked closely with DCI Central and DCI Pacific to have all-age corps judged on DCA sheets -- at least in those contests where there have been more than one all-age corps.

Since this is a fairly new development, there are obviously some minor "bugs" in this syetem, none the least of which is the clinicing (is that a word?) of DCI judges on DCA judging techniques. Certainly this is an effort to allow non-northeast corps to get an evaluation and a final number comparable to what would be received with a full DCA panel. (You'll note on the DCA recaps that there are fewer judges at these non-northeast contests, due to the differences in the judging system, number of judges, etc.)

But due to regional and other differences, we should never conclude that a 79 performance on the west coast would be a 79 everywhere else (much like the perceived difference a few years ago of a National League strike vs. an American League strike in baseball).

I am sure the DCA corps are pleased 1) to have the cooperation of the DCI regions (thanks to the efforts of people on both coasts), 2) to receive judges' evaluations earlier in the season than they would otherwise have, and 3) to be able to build better schedules with more contests.

Here in the Midwest, MCL, Govies, Kilties, and others are members of DCI Central while recognizing that it is a circuit of junior corps, catering MOSTLY to their needs. I am certain that similar a relationship exists between/among Renegades, RCR, Dream, and DCI Pacific. It's not a perfect system, but both sides are working hard to make sure it works. Rather than harp on the negatives or problems, better we celebrate the new spirit of cooperation between DCI and DCA. It's a win-win for both the circuits and their junior and all-age member corps.

It would be hard to imagine a day when the scores nationwide are comparable. Isn't that part of the intrigue of the activity?

that's a well put summation. and come September, we'll see how accurate things were.

good judges can work anywhere, they just have to know the philosophy of the sheets.

[CallipygianKing]

It is, as Stephan put, an improving situation. It's much better than previous years when people lloked at recaps and dug out their calculators to approximate the conversion from DCI sheets to DCA sheets.

But, honestly, the Midwest feeling has always seemed to be that June and July scores honestly count for nil. The only scores that have really mattered were the ones received at a championship... Until last year, that was DCM in DeKalb. Although, I think that people will probably be paying close attention to the August 19 & 20 shows in Minnesota... The first DCA-C shows. I smell hot competition on the horizon.

[CallipygianKing]

But I kinda like this whole stealth thing more and more

Dark horses rule!

[bigmyq]

always seemed to be that June and July scores honestly count for nil.

Some of us corps that only perform during those months might tend to disagree.