rut-roh Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) I love the opener. New, fresh, different, modern, exciting. The ballad is nice, but to me, it's a big drop off in terms of the design level achieved in the opener. It's more or less a safe, "by the numbers" ballad, both visually and musically. Nice, don't get me wrong. But rather stale in comparison to the wonderful opening few minutes. The rest of the show is sort of stuck in between the fresh/modern beginning and the more predictable/safe ballad. Average, I guess is how I would put it. But certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination. Like others have said, if this was 1999 or 2000, this would be a top 8 corps. But the quality of competition is so strong these days, this is a show that probably won't make Finals. Still, they are headed in the right direction. Well done, Colts. RANT ON: This will probably tick off some people, but whatever. It is my personal opinion after several viewings of these corps that the Colts (and probably even the Crossmen) should be ahead of Spirit. At this point, Spirit may be a bit cleaner than the others, but I have serious issues with their show. Especially from a musical standpoint. It makes absolutely no sense to me. They go from Blues in the Night, right into Blue Shades, right into Old Man River...no musical transitions whatsoever, nothing visually that denotes why they are switching tunes. The whole thing leaves me scratching my head in a big way. And while the visual design more or less makes sense, there isn't much that's memorable about it. And some of it, like I said, doesn't lend itself to supporting the musical choices at all. I guess I'm saying that while I may be able to see a slight difference in performance quality (and Spirit is generally ahead in those areas as of today), from a design and show standpoint, I think the Colts and Crossmen have better shows overall and much more room for growth as the season goes on. I don't see this 3-4 point difference between them at all. It should be much closer. Just my 2 cents... Edited July 28, 2006 by rut-roh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decompressed Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 RANT ON:This will probably tick off some people, but whatever. It is my personal opinion after several viewings of these corps that the Colts (and probably even the Crossmen) should be ahead of Spirit. At this point, Spirit may be a bit cleaner than the others, but I have serious issues with their show. Especially from a musical standpoint. It makes absolutely no sense to me. They go from Blues in the Night, right into Blue Shades, right into Old Man River...no musical transitions whatsoever, nothing visually that denotes why they are switching tunes. The whole thing leaves me scratching my head in a big way. And while the visual design more or less makes sense, there isn't much that's memorable about it. And some of it, like I said, doesn't lend itself to supporting the musical choices at all. Just my 2 cents... You mean that Spirit is doing what Drum Corps used to do? Just play good tunes, march, play well and put a good prodcut on the field. I slightly disagree with you here, although the Colts show design is very smart, their execution and performance issues mask that a bit. Same thing with Crossmen, however their problem seems to be that the bookends make no sense with the middle of the show. I think when you break it down, the judges are seeing less programming issues with spirit than the colts/crossmen. My 2 cents as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-roh Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 You mean that Spirit is doing what Drum Corps used to do? Just play good tunes, march, play well and put a good prodcut on the field. I don't recall many drum corps shows from the past where they went through three songs in four minutes with no musical transitions between songs. I have no problems with a corps coming out and just playing three or four songs. If there is a beginning and ending to those songs, and there is some sort of context with how they are arranged, I'm all for it. Here, I'm asking...what is the context?? Why do they go from this Blues in the Night thing straight into Blue Shades with nothing musically or visually to tell me WHY? Just all the sudden...oh we're playing Blue Shades now. Same thing when it goes from Blue Shades directly into Old Man River. No transitions. Just, oh we're going back to Old Man River now. I guess I just don't understand it. I slightly disagree with you here, although the Colts show design is very smart, their execution and performance issues mask that a bit. Same thing with Crossmen, however their problem seems to be that the bookends make no sense with the middle of the show. As I said, performance and excellence I can see right now. Design, I really don't see it. (And with the changes the Crossmen added to their show for San Antonio, I think their bookends make MUCH more sense now...not that I had any real troubles understanding them before. Now it's just way more obvious.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decompressed Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I don't recall many drum corps shows from the past where they went through three songs in four minutes with no musical transitions between songs. I have no problems with a corps coming out and just playing three or four songs. If there is a beginning and ending to those songs, and there is some sort of context with how they are arranged, I'm all for it. Here, I'm asking...what is the context?? Why do they go from this Blues in the Night thing straight into Blue Shades with nothing musically or visually to tell me WHY? Just all the sudden...oh we're playing Blue Shades now. Same thing when it goes from Blue Shades directly into Old Man River. No transitions. Just, oh we're going back to Old Man River now. I guess I just don't understand it. OK...now i see your point. Sorry if i misunderstood. I agree with you on the Blues in the Night to Blue Shades, i remember watching that and thinking that the transition really didn't connect with me. However, i still suggest that they have less pacing, programming issues than the corps behind them at this point and they just plain drum and play better too. Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlemm Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yes, they need to clean, and yes, they need to continue to work, but let's all wait until semis. These guys have just as good of a chance as any of the currently scoring 12-16 corps to pull this one out. Unbelievable performances have vaulted corps a number of times in semis and finals. The Colts have a wonderful show, as does Spirit, Crossmen, Cap Reg and Blue Stars. Any of these corps could possibly make it! Based on scores and complexity of shows, this is my guess: 12. Colts 13. Spirit 14. Crossmen 15. Cap Reg 16. Blue Stars And like a previous poster said, any other year and two or three of these shows would be in finals! I actually think the level of competition actually makes everyone better, leading to stronger shows in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCfan76 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 RANT ON:This will probably tick off some people, but whatever. It is my personal opinion after several viewings of these corps that the Colts (and probably even the Crossmen) should be ahead of Spirit. I agree with you. I've seen all 3 corps twice, and I have to give the nod to Colts. Frankly, the Spirit show just doesn't do it for me - once you get past the loud hornline (a Spinal Tap 11?), there's not much there. And I didn't think Spirirt was that much cleaner, either. Just my opinion. But percussion - I'm not a drum guy, but for whatever reason the Colt's drumline is getting hammered, so there are a lot of points being lost there. I know they have recently taken steps to remedy the situation (change of staff) - so we'll see. Still LOTS of time for corps to move around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrassdad Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Especially from a musical standpoint. It makes absolutely no sense to me. They go from Blues in the Night, right into Blue Shades, right into Old Man River...no musical transitions whatsoever, nothing visually that denotes why they are switching tunes. The whole thing leaves me scratching my head in a big way. And while the visual design more or less makes sense, there isn't much that's memorable about it. And some of it, like I said, doesn't lend itself to supporting the musical choices at all.Just my 2 cents... No it doesn't "tick us off".....keep in mind this is Spirit's 30th Anniversary show, and think about the foundations of the Corps.... The best way way to decribe that section of the show would be to think of it as montage rather than sperate songs. Nothing fancy.....I think someone said something about it really just being a fun to listen to Old to New kind of show....that's probably a good way to look at it.....NO Gimmicks...Your not suppose to have to think about it just listen to it.... Maybe next year Spirit can do a trendy.....deep...dark....epic.....Naaaah....probably just more tunes. And your right, they are cleaner right now....with a loud horn line...AND....I do like Crossman, (not crazy about this years show), and Colts do have great product this year as well.....ANY of these would be an awesome Start for the TOP 12 at Madison..... BUT I guess it's obvious who I rooting for......Let's Go Baby Blue!!! Edited July 28, 2006 by lowbrassdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyc Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I love the opener. New, fresh, different, modern, exciting. The ballad is nice, but to me, it's a big drop off in terms of the design level achieved in the opener. It's more or less a safe, "by the numbers" ballad, both visually and musically. Nice, don't get me wrong. But rather stale in comparison to the wonderful opening few minutes. The rest of the show is sort of stuck in between the fresh/modern beginning and the more predictable/safe ballad. Average, I guess is how I would put it. But certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination. Like others have said, if this was 1999 or 2000, this would be a top 8 corps. But the quality of competition is so strong these days, this is a show that probably won't make Finals. Still, they are headed in the right direction. Well done, Colts. RANT ON: This will probably tick off some people, but whatever. It is my personal opinion after several viewings of these corps that the Colts (and probably even the Crossmen) should be ahead of Spirit. At this point, Spirit may be a bit cleaner than the others, but I have serious issues with their show. Especially from a musical standpoint. It makes absolutely no sense to me. They go from Blues in the Night, right into Blue Shades, right into Old Man River...no musical transitions whatsoever, nothing visually that denotes why they are switching tunes. The whole thing leaves me scratching my head in a big way. And while the visual design more or less makes sense, there isn't much that's memorable about it. And some of it, like I said, doesn't lend itself to supporting the musical choices at all. I guess I'm saying that while I may be able to see a slight difference in performance quality (and Spirit is generally ahead in those areas as of today), from a design and show standpoint, I think the Colts and Crossmen have better shows overall and much more room for growth as the season goes on. I don't see this 3-4 point difference between them at all. It should be much closer. Just my 2 cents... Anything can happen at finals, but...................................... At this point, looking at the weighted scores, Spirit has the Colts in EVERY caption albeit a narrow margin in some. The weighted average for overall score has them up by 2.87 in overall score. In addition, the three times they were head to head, Spirit came out on top by reasonable margins. As to design, there can be discussion on whether Spirit is getting the "A" effort from Gaines, but I don't think that too many people would argue the level of his talent. I don't remember what the scoring differences were between Spirit and the corps they jumped in Orlando, but I don't recall them being as far apart as Spirit and Colts are at this point. Someone with a better historical perspective/memory will correct me if I'm off in my recollection. Tomorrow will help tell the tale. Spirit is only 1.26 off the G'men. It would seem a likelier possibility that they could jump them, and you don't hear people talking about that. MY 2cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I'd love to see them make finals, as I have a couple friends from K-State in the corps... but everyone else this year is SO GOOD that it's going to be very, very difficult. It's a shame because any other year they'd be a lock for finals :( I agree. Right now it looks like Spirit might get that last Finals spot. Spirit has improved this year, and are looking and sounding like a Finalist Corps. They seem to be a couple of points up on the Colts right now. That's not insurmountable though. The Colts are within striking distance and that should be encouraging for Colts fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) I love the opener. New, fresh, different, modern, exciting. The ballad is nice, but to me, it's a big drop off in terms of the design level achieved in the opener. It's more or less a safe, "by the numbers" ballad, both visually and musically. Nice, don't get me wrong. But rather stale in comparison to the wonderful opening few minutes. The rest of the show is sort of stuck in between the fresh/modern beginning and the more predictable/safe ballad. Average, I guess is how I would put it. But certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination. Like others have said, if this was 1999 or 2000, this would be a top 8 corps. But the quality of competition is so strong these days, this is a show that probably won't make Finals. Still, they are headed in the right direction. Well done, Colts. RANT ON: This will probably tick off some people, but whatever. It is my personal opinion after several viewings of these corps that the Colts (and probably even the Crossmen) should be ahead of Spirit. At this point, Spirit may be a bit cleaner than the others, but I have serious issues with their show. Especially from a musical standpoint. It makes absolutely no sense to me. They go from Blues in the Night, right into Blue Shades, right into Old Man River...no musical transitions whatsoever, nothing visually that denotes why they are switching tunes. The whole thing leaves me scratching my head in a big way. And while the visual design more or less makes sense, there isn't much that's memorable about it. And some of it, like I said, doesn't lend itself to supporting the musical choices at all. I guess I'm saying that while I may be able to see a slight difference in performance quality (and Spirit is generally ahead in those areas as of today), from a design and show standpoint, I think the Colts and Crossmen have better shows overall and much more room for growth as the season goes on. I don't see this 3-4 point difference between them at all. It should be much closer. Just my 2 cents... Spirit has a better percussion line than the Colts....... MUCH better, in my opinion. ( and apparently, that of the judges too ). That's one of the reasons Spirit is scoring ahead of the Colts right now....... Percussion. Even the Blue Stars and Magic finished ahead of the Colts in Percussion in San Antonio. Edited July 28, 2006 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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