idontwan2know Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Actually...Intonation has a huge impact on loudness. I'd love to see some factual evidence of this. Intonation certainly has an impact on percieved loudness, but I just can't buy that any brass ensemble plays well enough in tune to make real constructive wave interference happen. The loudest brass lines I've ever heard were not particularly in tune, and the most in tune brass lines I've ever heard were not tremendously loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Actually...Differences in pitch or tone quality have only a miniscule bearing on "loudness". So if one corps is percieved to be noticeably louder than another, it's because of other factors. Can you explain the huge volume change in the Blue Devils' Space Music then? There's no dynamic change written into the music; it simply goes from dissonance to a tuned chord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Thanks for the condescending reply...it's much appreciated. Sorry, wrote my message too quickly. Didn't really intend to condescend. My point is just to say that we're a long way from abandoning a distinctive drum corps sound, or fielding corps that can't project their sound to the back row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I'd love to see some factual evidence of this. Intonation certainly has an impact on percieved loudness, but I just can't buy that any brass ensemble plays well enough in tune to make real constructive wave interference happen.The loudest brass lines I've ever heard were not particularly in tune, and the most in tune brass lines I've ever heard were not tremendously loud. Just basic physics. Phase and constructive interference. Look it up. Or just don't believe me. I don't really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Just basic physics. Phase and constructive interference. Look it up. Or just don't believe me. I don't really care. Alan, it's the truth. You can find many journal articles that support the evidence. I've done experiments here at FSU that show that signals in phase are much stronger than those that are even slightly out of phase. In the examples you mentioned above (Alan), it could be that the louder hornline was just that much louder, and would have been louder regardless of being in tune or out of it. But...given equal talents (roughly), a hornline of 30 playing perfectly in tune would be louder than a hornline of 40 playing out of tune. In most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 (edited) Can you explain the huge volume change in the Blue Devils' Space Music then? There's no dynamic change written into the music; it simply goes from dissonance to a tuned chord. Going from 72 brass playing 13 + notes and their octaves to a major chord reinforced by a third of the brass line each automatically increases volume due to reinforcement. A lot can be done to manipulate volume simply by chordal structure and depth. HOWEVER: when you play better in tune with matching charateristic tone quality you reinforce further the volume due to direct reeinforcement of exact pitches, less sound out of phase, and unified tones. However, if a hornline is THAT good, then they could sustain even stronger volumes...to the point of being potentially damaging to structures! Really...and isnt that what drum corps is all about? b**bs Which begs to ask: Does the difference in perceived volume in Cavies' hornline due to arranging styles and techniques by their arranger? Edited August 7, 2006 by prodigal bari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I know the physical phenomenon is real...I don't question that. What I question is how often drum corps hornlines achieve intonation perfect enough to make it happen...especially on the field and on the move where phase shift due to contrary motion and disparate sound sources comes into play. And even if it did happen, what's the resultant increase in amplitude? The phenomenon is real...I just question how relevant it is to what we do. Is constructive interference a "huge" factor in percieved volume? I'm not convinced of that. Regardless, intonation and the resulting sound is important enough whether it has a "huge" impact on volume or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisohyeah Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 (edited) What I meant to say was if you compare two excellent drum corps, the difference between the two's volume would not be caused by differences in pitch or timbre. And if it did, humans would most likely not be able percieve the difference, especially if the two corps aren't compared directly. Unless you drum corps folk are super good at that sort of stuff. But chances are the average audience member won't know. (Or care) Edited August 8, 2006 by mynameisohyeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artlady Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I always have wondered why everything has to be "loud"? What is wrong with being musically sound? After spending over 30 years around bands (and drum corps) It never fails to amaze me that someone will say "Now that was a good band or corp because they were loud!" I have heard many "loud" groups over time and they are not good!! I am not saying that the Corps that play loud are not good, like someone said, PR and BD play loud, but they play in tune and it sounds nice. But I don't think they are any louder than the Cavaliers most of the time. Maybe it is that the ending is not super loud and that is the last impression someone has. These players are musicians, lets let them sound like musicians. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is mine. Loud is not always better. b**bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I like a lot of dynamic contrast in shows, personally. Whisper-soft sections, and then rip-my-face-off sections. As great as the Cavaliers sound, tone quality-wise, they never really get as loud as other corps seem to, which is understandable, since it would probably come at the expense of the intonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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