What Went Wrong At DCI World Championships?

[Jim Anello]

DCI has to find a way to shorten the I&E awards. It took WAAY to long, especially with the addition of woodwinds to the mix. If I heard correctly, Friday night's proceedings actually ended later than originally planned, and that original plan had the show starting a half hour later.

You'd think none of the DCI folks had ever attended a high school commencement.

Solution? Take the pictures of the winners beforehand, flash them on the screen while their names are being announced. Setting up those photo ops took way too much time.

[dans]

Your logic is flawed.

I just find most classical shows unimaginative. To me it was just another show in an endless sea of similar unimaginative shows from all sorts of corps.

Bingo!

[Nebuchanezzar]

what I think went wrong was Regiment took 2nd and not 1st

in my opinion the Cavaliers won because of there visual package .... to me the brass package was non existant ... I mean come on play a few notes once in awhile rather than just run around and let the drumline and pit make all kinds of noises to imitate a machine ... all this "original music" they do is starting to get unoriginal to me. play something I can walk out of the stadium singing.

Regiment I say by far had the most challenging and well executed brass book this year ( and lets not even start the challenge of trumpets doubling on baritone for the ballad ... thats one heck of a feat to do change mouthpiece sizes like that in a show and still have that amazing sound ). there was soo much GE in that show its rediculous. demons, death, rebirth, uniforms going pure white for the Ressurection, a pentigram in the drill durring the evil strains of Alien God ... I could go more if you wanted.

To say that Cavaliers brass package was "non-existant" would be as much a mis-statement as to say that Phantom was boring. In terms of content, the Cavaliers hornline was easily in the same realm as anyone on the field, and a case could be made for their particular combination of physical and musical demand being on an entirely different plane than anyone else out there. In terms of execution, there is noone in DCI that even approaches the quality and clarity that they create. They are the only corps that approaches their instruments with orchestral quality in mind. Phantom, for all their talking of "rich dark sound" really has an edgy, unfocused, non-resonant sound in comparison to the Cavaliers.

Phantom is very good at creating effect through sound. Their tone quality doesn't remain consistent through changes in range, melodic line, or dynamics. They do not sound like the concert instruments they are either playing or imitating (in the case of baritones and mellophones). They deal in quantity of sound, which all too often is misinterpreted as music. It isn't - it's visceral noise that ellicits an emotional reaction from the audience. I, too, am taken by this effect, but recognize it as achieving only one (at most, two) domains of performance (emotional and possibly aesthetic.) It is incorrect to refer to it as musicality, because the truest expression of that phrase encompasses all three domains (emotional, aesthetic, intellectual). And, as to the trumpets picking up baritones... well, it sounded like beginning euphonium class in December to me. The notes were there, but there was no resemblance of characteristic sound or vibrancy to the tone.

In terms of visual/musical integration and synthesis... well... again, Cavaliers were on a different level than the rest of the field. Phantom did have a much better visual package this year (is Jamey Thompson still writing for them?) but the the depth of design that was evident in Cavaliers package blew it out of the water. Phantom's and Cavies' packages were both box 5 in design, but the nuance and detail in Cavaliers' put it ahead IMO. Yes, I disagree with Mike Anderson on this, but I know I am not alone in that.

In short - to say that the percussion of the Cavaliers carried the weight of the thematic material in terms of creating "machine-like-noises" would be correct. But to say that they carried the weight of the show is as myopic a viewpoint as to say that Phantom had a boring, uninspiring show. They both are very good drum corps, but the Cavaliers were better. Plain and simple.

Neb B)

[The Tsar]

Your logic is flawed.

I just find most classical shows unimaginative. To me it was just another show in an endless sea of similar unimaginative shows from all sorts of corps.

Bingo! worthy.gif

Bingo!

So, by both of your logic:

Cavaliers were boring and unimaginative in 1985, 1988, I guess they were ok in 1989 because they were doing a mostly choral work, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998.

And Cadets were boring and unimaginative in 1987 when they did Appalachian Spring, and 1988, and 1991, and 1996, and all those other years they did classical shows.

To you guys, they were unimaginative, and "just another show in an endless sea of similar unimaginative shows from all sorts of corps."

Somehow, I doubt you will say that...this has more to do with the corps that is performing it than the type of show, methinks.

[Guizeppe]

What do you think was the biggest injustice during finals week (e.g. [Corp A] should have made semifinals, "Champions Fanfare" was a terrible replacement piece for retreat, the hot dogs at the concession stand were too dry, etc.)? <**>

ON TOPIC::

SCV should have been ahead of Cadets...maybe even Bloooo

Crown should have been higher than BK

Pacific Crest got jobbed this year, should have made semis

I'll be 39 the next time finals will be in Madison...that's lame

[The Tsar]

To say that Cavaliers brass package was "non-existant" would be as much a mis-statement as to say that Phantom was boring.

Indeed.

In terms of content, the Cavaliers hornline was easily in the same realm as anyone on the field, and a case could be made for their particular combination of physical and musical demand being on an entirely different plane than anyone else out there.

I'm not sure I agree that the content of the Cavaliers horn book was in the same realm as everyone else on the field. They had a lot of physical demand...but so did Regiment. In fact, although they weren't as clean, I'd almost say that Regiment moved more than Cavaliers this year. That's not saying that PR was better than Cavaliers in visual, but rather that they seemed to be at least as "involved" marching-wise as were Cavaliers. When the DVDs come out, someone can time it with a stopwatch and tell for sure, but it sure seemed like that to me on the various streams I saw this year, as well as seeing it live in Atlanta.

In terms of execution, there is noone in DCI that even approaches the quality and clarity that they create. They are the only corps that approaches their instruments with orchestral quality in mind. Phantom, for all their talking of "rich dark sound" really has an edgy, unfocused, non-resonant sound in comparison to the Cavaliers.

I keep hearing this over and over again, and I just disagree. The Cavaliers approach their instruments differently, that much is true. I don't know if one would say they do it with orchestral quality in mind. Orchestral brass musicians sound much more like Regiment than Cavaliers. I've been lucky enough to see many orchestras live all over the US, and am luckier still to have friends who are members of those orchestras...and I gotta tell you, I've never heard a professional orchestra brass section that sounded like the Cavaliers. It's too controlled for my tastes, and probably also for most orchestra brass players.

That rich, dark sound with an edge can be found in many brass sections in the orchestra world, most notably CSO, though NY has it as well, and so does Philly and Boston and Cleveland.

Phantom is very good at creating effect through sound. Their tone quality doesn't remain consistent through changes in range, melodic line, or dynamics. They do not sound like the concert instruments they are either playing or imitating (in the case of baritones and mellophones).

Perhaps, but neither do the Cavaliers. Let's not get above ourselves here...both sets of hornlines (and all hornlines, in fact) are playing instruments created for outdoors. The Cavaliers don't sound like the concert instruments they imitate any more than the Regiment does.

They deal in quantity of sound, which all too often is misinterpreted as music. It isn't - it's visceral noise that ellicits an emotional reaction from the audience.

Music is pretty much in the ear of the beholder, is it not? That is what John Cage taught us. I prefer to have that visceral experience than to have an overly controlled sound experience. I've said it before, the Cavaliers sound great, but are too controlled for my tastes.

I, too, am taken by this effect, but recognize it as achieving only one (at most, two) domains of performance (emotional and possibly aesthetic.)

So how many domains do the Cavaliers achieve, then? Are they achieving the emotional domain? Some would say no. Isn't the "intellectual" domain also reached by the scope of the literature they are playing? Who gets to make up the rules here? :)

It is incorrect to refer to it as musicality, because the truest expression of that phrase encompasses all three domains (emotional, aesthetic, intellectual).

So then is it incorrect to call the Cavaliers unmusical because they did not encompass all three domains for me? Come now...that's just silly.

And, as to the trumpets picking up baritones... well, it sounded like beginning euphonium class in December to me. The notes were there, but there was no resemblance of characteristic sound or vibrancy to the tone.

Disagree, as a euphonium player. Did they sound like a euph should? No....they were playing baritones. The effect to me was one of a choir of tenor voices and baritone voices...in the choral world, there is a difference between the two. Maybe that is what they were going for?

In terms of visual/musical integration and synthesis... well... again, Cavaliers were on a different level than the rest of the field. Phantom did have a much better visual package this year (is Jamey Thompson still writing for them?)

Yes, he is. And I hope he will continue to write for them for a good long time.

but the the depth of design that was evident in Cavaliers package blew it out of the water. Phantom's and Cavies' packages were both box 5 in design, but the nuance and detail in Cavaliers' put it ahead IMO.

If they're both Box Five, I don't know how one of them could be blown out of the water, but at least we got you to say it was Box Five, so I won't argue. :P

In short - to say that the percussion of the Cavaliers carried the weight of the thematic material in terms of creating "machine-like-noises" would be correct. But to say that they carried the weight of the show is as myopic a viewpoint as to say that Phantom had a boring, uninspiring show. They both are very good drum corps, but the Cavaliers were better. Plain and simple.

On this particular night, yes indeed. Though Regiment certainly made a run of it, and made us old alumns proud.

Edited August 13, 2006 by The Tsar

[The Tsar]

Ugh, I hate it when the Quote feature decides to crap out.

[Sleep Dirt]

You might not have all your open and close tags matched up correctly.

[Sleep Dirt]

Well, I couldn't fix it.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Sleep Dirt

[uncle z]

Well, don't get on their case about spelling his name....there are 14 or so accepted variants of his name, after all.

Рачманинноф can be transliterated many different ways. :P

Your Cyrillic is actually spelled incorrectly!!! This is correct: Рахманинов

uncle z

US Army Military Intelligence Corps

Russian Language Interpreter (83-86) :P

Edited August 14, 2006 by uncle z