DCI Meeting in Chicago... Good News for All-Age Corps!

[SaraNYC]

Exactly!!!

DCI judges don't use the sheets properly; they come from a high execution paradigm. DCA is of the entertainment paradigm. (Some would actually say DCA judges don't use their sheets properly either, in that not enough consideration is being given towards entertainment as it should be. That word is the foundation of DCA; right there in the offical written philosophy of DCA I believe.)

I think if a DCA corps is being judged by DCI judges, just leave it on the sheets they are familiar with, especially if there's only one DCA corps at that DCI show. Actually if that's the case, just be judged exhibition and don't publish the score; don't even give a score for that matter.

IMO DCI started the move away from execution when it got rid of the tic system and began the "derived achivement" judging system back in the early 80's. Then the question became how much credit do you give a corps for attempting more difficult constant motion drill (ala Zingali) vs. clean park and bark stuff. I

It was my impression that DCA continued to judge execution pretty highly until the last 3 years or so and then began a move towards derivied achievement and it seems to me that the corps that are winning now are sucessful because they have learned to "play the Judge" so to speak, much like "playing the whistle" in a sporting event. You know, either adjust you game play to the ref or lose the game.

Anyway, even in a more entertainment based system like DCA, it's still gotta be clean to win, execution is still a factor.

The push really needs to be made for a level standard of DCA judging across the entire country in order for DCA to continue to improve the level of competition. It is useless for a corps to march all summer and not get decent judges and feedback for their shows.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Hmmm I was unaware that only the Renegades made this happen. From what I understood is there was a little man from down south that was key in getting this accomplished also.

You mean the little man down south that started as a Renegade and helped start this (west coast all age corps) ball rolling? :P

Funny thing about us West Coast guys. While we see RCR and SoCal Dream as "competition" (especially with RCR really turning up the fire this summer.....holy ####!!!) We know that more drum corps = a good thing. Each of the three corps has members that have marched in all three corps. (Actually, I'm not completely sure about RCR, but I imagine it's true). As for what was inferred when Greg talked about what we (Renenegades) implemented, we by all means did not build the west coast on our own. However, you'd be hard spent to try and say we didn't get the ball rolling, and then as each other corps came online, it was just a network that built. The teamwork between all three corps is something we very deeply recognize. We help each other out because we want to get all age corps up and running out here. On the field, we're competitors. Off the field, we are have (for the most part....with a few bumps and snags in the road) a single focus: more drum corps. more drum corps. more drum corps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 5, 2006 by LisaLisaMoMeesa

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Yup, sure you do, but just try and see what DCI thinks of you and your corps. If XYZ corps shows up to all the events, and you only go to your selected 4 shows. Do you think they will look upon you in the same light? They did it to the junior corps, and they will do it to you if you don't do as they wish. The corps that couldn't afford the big tours were just not given the support by DCI.

My whole point was I don't think DCI is the governing body to put this together, I don't trust them at all. DCI is very cunning at their approach, take over, maybe not, but run out of business may be more like it. They took control of the DCA show in RI in 05, and ran it into the ground. No more show in RI is the end result! Why, because it doesn't fit their preconcieved demographic is my best guess. They used the venue to promote their own in Foxboro that year. Yep, used it and left it to die it's own death. For the first time in many years there was no drum corps show in our little state, and that is too bad.

Seems as though I am the lone decenter here, and that is ok. Forums are to voice opinions as far as I know. And as you can tell, I am Opinionated.

Nothing I have said is meant to be derogatory to any corps that does this, please don't take it that way. I am just a concerned fan, and not a "lost cause" as you put it. In fact I do take exception to that comment. How can you even have an opinion of me, you have NEVER met me! Whether I go to your show or not has NOTHING to do with this conversation.

I hope for all of you that I am wrong, and time will tell. Mostly, I do wish you and all the corps that participate good luck! And I do look forward to seeing everyone in Rochester next year!

with all due respect Rick, you have alot of comments about this meeting for a guy who wasn't there. The Renegades, and then the Renegades with the help of it's west coast bretheren has made huge strides in being a player WITH DCI, instead of AGAINST DCI. I have full faith and confidence that with fortitude, good negotiation skills and a product that can't be beat, DCI will realize the "scratching each others back" opportunities that are available by bringing us (all of us in the west) into the fold. It's not going to happen over night, to be sure. And there will be bumps, set backs, disagreements, just as there should be in the development of any relationship. But judging from the hard work that has been put in thus far, I think the foundation to a mutually enjoyable relationship is being formed right before our very eyes.

You can choose to see the glass as half empty. Me? I'll base my opinions from those who were there at the meeting. To each his own.

And do you really think the Renegades will let anyone "dictate" anything to them????? ^0^

Edited October 5, 2006 by LisaLisaMoMeesa

[Kamarag]

It was my impression that DCA continued to judge execution pretty highly until the last 3 years or so and then began a move towards derivied achievement and it seems to me that the corps that are winning now are sucessful because they have learned to "play the Judge" so to speak, much like "playing the whistle" in a sporting event. You know, either adjust you game play to the ref or lose the game.

Maybe, but you're also implying that the corps that have won in "the last 3 years" or so weren't also the ones who executed the best, and I would take issue with that statement. I think not only have the last three DCA Champs executed the best, but the several before that as well, and I don't see the judges criteria being that much different.

I think to smoe extent the corps choosing to perform more challenging programs are finally executing at a championship level (and a few corps that haven't quite managed a win are as well).

[SaraNYC]

Maybe, but you're also implying that the corps that have won in "the last 3 years" or so weren't also the ones who executed the best, and I would take issue with that statement. I think not only have the last three DCA Champs executed the best, but the several before that as well, and I don't see the judges criteria being that much different.

I think to smoe extent the corps choosing to perform more challenging programs are finally executing at a championship level (and a few corps that haven't quite managed a win are as well).

Well, I will not argue with you - I have to admit, I'm basing what I'm saying on what "I've been told..." rather than actually getting copies of the DVDs and watching them for myself.

I mean, I would hope that what you're saying is the case, but some of the explainations I've heard have caused me to come to the conclusions I've come to about judging.

Edited October 5, 2006 by SaraNYC

[lobrass7]

You mean the little man down south that started as a Renegade and helped start this (west coast all age corps) ball rolling? :P

Funny thing about us West Coast guys. While we see RCR and SoCal Dream as "competition" (especially with RCR really turning up the fire this summer.....holy ####!!!) We know that more drum corps = a good thing. Each of the three corps has members that have marched in all three corps. (Actually, I'm not completely sure about RCR, but I imagine it's true). As for what was inferred when Greg talked about what we (Renenegades) implemented, we by all means did not build the west coast on our own. However, you'd be hard spent to try and say we didn't get the ball rolling, and then as each other corps came online, it was just a network that built. The teamwork between all three corps is something we very deeply recognize. We help each other out because we want to get all age corps up and running out here. On the field, we're competitors. Off the field, we are have (for the most part....with a few bumps and snags in the road) a single focus: more drum corps. more drum corps. more drum corps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we can't forget that kick-a## party us three West Coast corps had together at Gilman's after the Sunnyvale show this past July! Much fun was had by all that night.

While at that party, I couldn't stop thinking that we were the embodiment of why we do this crazy activity in the first place...

Seriously though...way too much whining and bellyaching about the DCI meeting.

I hope everyone is enjoying the "off season" (if there really is one!) and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone kicking butt on the field in 2007!

[Brigscontrachik05]

Well, I will not argue with you - I have to admit, I'm basing what I'm saying on what "I've been told..." rather than actually getting copies of the DVDs and watching them for myself.

I mean, I would hope that what you're saying is the case, but some of the explainations I've heard have caused me to come to the conclusions I've come to about judging.

:o

You state an opinion on here, but, you don't actually "know" ??? Bad, bad Sara.

Shame on you! Now go watch the past 10 DCA championships. NOW.

:P

[SaraNYC]

:o

You state an opinion on here, but, you don't actually "know" ??? Bad, bad Sara.

Shame on you! Now go watch the past 10 DCA championships. NOW.

:P

Well, you know me. I'm just bad. And I'm not going to say anything about my personal opinions of technique, or the overall decline of it, because that would be very bad. :P

Anyway, don't get me started on the demise of the tic system and the beginning of the end, otherwise know as my "drum corps will eat itself" theory of evolution.

[krazyivan]

I'm sitting here reading this thread, and I can't understand the whole DCI vs. DCA and the East Coast(mainly NE) vs. West Coast/every one who isn't EC. granted i'm still a fresh snotty nosed green horn compaired to alot of people here. i've been in the activity for only 6 years(this up comming year will be my 7th year). which is not short but considering alot of people here have been playing in corps for 20+ years it is a short amount of time. I'm sure alot of you have been using the same mouth piece for longer than i've been playing a horn. But in my opion i can't see DCI having intrest in all age as a bad thing. I know some of the arguments that DCI eats corps up and spits them out and if they have troubble staying competitive and in the activity, well thats just too bad and how things happen. But i also hear alot of people saying they wish both sides of the activity would work together. But now it seems like since DCI wants to open doors, but now some people want the activty to remain seperated into JR AA.

Maby some one can explain what has been going on to the others who are like me who can't understand why DCI is basicly starting to sound like the anti-christ of drum corps. If the two are able to work together but as seperate groups then i see nothing wrong there. It seems like it would be kind of fun to share the field with other groups who share the same feelings as you do. Be them junior senior all age or alumni. And since the juniors have the ablity to practice all summer long maby going up against them will push the all age groups to their limits so that way the all age side grows stronger and losses the image i heard about as being nothing but people who can't march anymore but don't realise it yet. If this helps both groups grown then how can this be bad. More importantly if this bridges the gap between the two and helping the all age groups to grow because more people who be introduced to them then i can't see how that would be bad at all.

But like i said i have only been around for a short time and have only been with one group and haven't been lucky enough to have had alot of the exsperiances of being in different groups in different parts of the country at different times in the history of the activity like alot of other people here. so it just might be my freshness.

[Ron H]

Folks, here's how it's going to go down:

DCI will enlist certain key, non-NE corps to join their ranks.

Those corps will eventually agree that DCI offers them certain advantages in terms of performance opportunities. Consequently, whenever there is a conflict between a DCA Regional show and a DCI show, the affiliated corps will most likely choose the DCI show.

DCI will run an AA (All-Age) Championships in conjunction with DCI week.

Those participating AA member corps will attend those AA championships and will eventually come to see that the winner of this new DCI-AA division rightfully becomes the new "World Champion" All-Age Corps.

DCA will soon become irrelevant, given DCI's superior marketing strategy of claiming to be the definitive representation of Drum Corps. After all, can DCA even remotely claim to enlist even the slightest interest of ESPN? (Note: I am very pro-DCA! I just have to acknowledge the writing on the wall.)

Now, certain All-Age DCI-affiliated corps will still support DCA, but only for a while. It will become an obvious realization that DCA cannot provide the same level of financial strength that DCI affiliation can provide.

Gang, I've been there. I've personally witnessed the attitudes of DCI Board members. They exist for the bottom line. And they truly believe that DCI is the be-all-and-end-all of drum corps.

No other model of the drum corps activity exists as a valid paradigm in their minds. Drum Corps - as it has been proclaimed by the Executive Board - exists for the benefit of youth. All-Age corps exist for those who wish to re-claim their youth. It is not something to be taken too seriously.

Remember this: DCI is controlled entirely by the top 12 DCI members. NO ONE ELSE has any say.

No AA-corps.

No Div II/III corps.

Yes, this is hypothetical. But I fear this may be the future.

And here's another prediction: DCI is moving to Indianapolis. It will soon merge with Bands of America.

A One-World Government of drum corps is coming. And it's going to be controlled by the top-12 DCI corps.

Edited October 6, 2006 by Ron H