The Crossmen still belong in Pennsylvania.

[glory]

...The fault is not YEA's, and I have never looked at it that way, but in hindsight I believe that the Crossmen should have considered not signing on with YEA, and instead should have tried going inactive for a year and carried out a more extensive search for benefactors who would allow the corps to operate in the Philadelphia area. But that's hindsight, and it provides us with the 20/20 view of a problem that, at that time, seemed to be solved by allowing YEA to manage and operate two corps. Very few of us could have predicted then that YEA would ultimately "sell" the corps to a group in Texas.

Pardon me for suggesting perhaps your hindsight isn't quite 20/20. First, your reasoning presupposes the Crossmen leadership didn't consider the option you suggest: inactivity and regrouping. I don't know, but I suspect they did. Think back to the mid-90s. Drum corps wasn't exactly ascendant then. You could even argue that the years 1996 to 1999 represented some of drum corps worst years for drift and decline. Going inactive at that point - when DCI itself was in major transition - might well have been the death of the Crossmen as it was for others.

Aligning with YEA seems in retrospect less a positive choice than a last resort. Crossmen climbed into the only seaworthy lifeboat available and were greated with generosity, respect and sustenance. I can't see where they made their mistake to choose the lifeboat over the vast and dangerous sea.

Viewed from October 2006, calling the Crossmen's flight to YEA a mistake is to suggest that better alternatives were available. We've read for years on this board about efforts to organize alumni and friends to "rescue" Crossmen from YEA. What came of those efforts? Which Pennsylvania alumni group mustered the resources to give Crossmen a local home? Who stepped up to save the Crossmen except YEA?

It's been a decade since Crossmen were saved by YEA. In that decade, Crossmen achieved some of their greatest achievements, not least of which was continuing to march. In this same era, Boston and Carolina also entered relationships with YEA then extracted themselves once they'd met their intermediate goals. Other corps disappeared from the field altogether.

Crossmen didn't. They'd held the lifeline into 2006, perhaps because they had no other choice. And now, in the interests of YEA, the Cadets and the Crossmen, that lifeline will be cut, and Crossmen will go to Texas. Who's fault is that? It's no more YEA's fault than it is the fault of Crossmen alumni and friends for falling to arrange another solution (or indeed for sustaining the Crossmen in the mid- and late 90s).

This isn't a theoretical exercise. Someone has to pay the bills and staff the rehearsals. Did YEA choose the wrong option in choosing Texas? In the absence of tangible evidence to the contrary, it sounds to me they made the only choice, the only choice to save and sustain the Crossmen, now as they did then.

HH

[LAMystreaux]

I'm pretty sure alumni of the corps(which Lee is) have the right to an opinion on the matter.

Noone said he could not have an opinion.

[LAMystreaux]

What???

Tx I think you misunderstood when you heard they were from Delaware County, PA. As well as Philly, West Chester and Allentown.

They did move to Delaware state for a while back in the '90s, but the corps was originally from PA.

Yes, it hurts but deep down inside I think every alumni wishes the best for the corps, even if it takes them to Texas.

So they were or were not in Delaware for some time? It seems they were. . .so why the confusion from my statement?

[piojon]

wow what a ridiculos topic

[JimF-LowBari]

So they were or were not in Delaware for some time? It seems they were. . .so why the confusion from my statement?

:P Always seems confusion in the southeastern part of PA with having the Delaware Valley (PA), Delaware County (PA) and state of Delaware close to each other. From what I remember Crossmen were only in Newark, DE for a few years. And moving between those areas of PA and DE is almost like just hoping across the border. Almost like the Cadets moving from NJ to Allentown.

Edit: kac, thanks for the info you gave in the below post. I don't know SE PA geography that well. About all I can do is find Delaware Valley College and West Chester U. Never realized Crossmens home bases were that close.

Edited October 24, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari

[kac]

So they were or were not in Delaware for some time? It seems they were. . .so why the confusion from my statement?

The confusion in your statement stems from the fact that Delaware is 20 min down the road from most of the places that Crossmen used as a home base in years prior to that. It's not a few hours away via airplane.

So yeah, they were in Delaware, and in Phillly, and in West Chester, PA, and last year had camps in Southern NJ. But all of those places are within a 30min radius of Philly. Crossing state lines isn't a big deal in this area since most people in the Philly area (or NYC metro area) cross state lines daily for one reason or another.

It's not like there were legions of people in DE who were up in arms about moving the corps back to PA. It was the same volunteers, same corps members, same staff, etc, no matter which state the corps was in- they were just driving 20min in a new direction instead to be with Crossmen. It was not a big deal at all.

Don't try and imply that the Crossmen have gone through something similar before just because they cross state lines. They haven't.

[drumcat]

Pardon me for suggesting perhaps your hindsight isn't quite 20/20. First, your reasoning presupposes the Crossmen leadership didn't consider the option you suggest: inactivity and regrouping. I don't know, but I suspect they did. Think back to the mid-90s. Drum corps wasn't exactly ascendant then. You could even argue that the years 1996 to 1999 represented some of drum corps worst years for drift and decline. Going inactive at that point - when DCI itself was in major transition - might well have been the death of the Crossmen as it was for others.

Aligning with YEA seems in retrospect less a positive choice than a last resort. Crossmen climbed into the only seaworthy lifeboat available and were greated with generosity, respect and sustenance. I can't see where they made their mistake to choose the lifeboat over the vast and dangerous sea.

Viewed from October 2006, calling the Crossmen's flight to YEA a mistake is to suggest that better alternatives were available. We've read for years on this board about efforts to organize alumni and friends to "rescue" Crossmen from YEA. What came of those efforts? Which Pennsylvania alumni group mustered the resources to give Crossmen a local home? Who stepped up to save the Crossmen except YEA?

It's been a decade since Crossmen were saved by YEA. In that decade, Crossmen achieved some of their greatest achievements, not least of which was continuing to march. In this same era, Boston and Carolina also entered relationships with YEA then extracted themselves once they'd met their intermediate goals. Other corps disappeared from the field altogether.

Crossmen didn't. They'd held the lifeline into 2006, perhaps because they had no other choice. And now, in the interests of YEA, the Cadets and the Crossmen, that lifeline will be cut, and Crossmen will go to Texas. Who's fault is that? It's no more YEA's fault than it is the fault of Crossmen alumni and friends for falling to arrange another solution (or indeed for sustaining the Crossmen in the mid- and late 90s).

This isn't a theoretical exercise. Someone has to pay the bills and staff the rehearsals. Did YEA choose the wrong option in choosing Texas? In the absence of tangible evidence to the contrary, it sounds to me they made the only choice, the only choice to save and sustain the Crossmen, now as they did then.

HH

Exactly. </topic>

[oldsoprano]

It's not such a bad thing..yea its a long move and its going to make things a little harder on the alums and all, but I'm sure they will still tour extensively on the eastern seaboard.

Also, look at Spirit of Atlanta/Georgia/JSU...They made finals in 1990, fell out in 91 and stayed out and sometimes well out, and then moved to Jacksonville, AL in 2001 placed 13th and are now pretty consistently a finals corps again. Not as far of a move but it has definitely helped them. In Atlanta they were way out of finals and constantly on the brink of folding, now they are healthy and having no problems fielding a corps.

Derek;

I know you pointed out that Spirit's move to JSU was not as far of a move, there's really no comparison between Spirit's move and Crossmen's move.

Spirit has had a VERY strong connection to JSU from the very beginning in the 1970s. There were about 20 to 30 JSU students who were charter members of the corps, and Spirit's founder was a JSU alum. That connection has been constant throughout the corps' history.

Beginning in around 1997 or so, Spirit began holding all camps at JSU, so the "move" that occurred in 2001 wasn't really a move at all. Besides, JSU is only 90 minutes from Spirit's original home in Cobb County (northwest Atlanta suburbs). I live in Cobb County, and at many times of the day, I can drive to JSU quicker than I can be in some of the other Atlanta suburbs.

So, really, any comparison between what Crossmen are going through and what Spirit went through is really apples and oranges.

While I hope - and expect - for Crossmen to thrive in their new home, I can certainly feel the deep pain of those alums and members from Pennsylvania.

To the poster who declared this thread "lame," I can only say, don't read it.

[geluf]

I realize its painful.

But at least the corps isn't folding. I expect that would hurt even more.

[SCVsopAaron]

'THIS TOPIC IS LAME" A PROFOUND STATEMENT WHICH COULD RELATE TO THE COST OF POTATO'S OR THE PROBLEM WITH CACTUS IN ARIZONA.! STOP LOOKING IN THE MIRROR, YOU ARE GETTING THE WRONG IMPRESSION OF YOURSELF.

Was that an insult or a compliment?