Girls in cavaliers & Scouts?

[mobrien]

I believe the case referenced a few posts ago referred to Shannon Faulkner, who applied to the Citadel back when it was still all male - and state funded. As it was an all-male institution, they didn't bother asking about her gender and assumed she was a boy named Shannon.

After the court case finally won her admission, she, unfortunately, didn't make it far as a cadet. But she at least opened the door for dozens of other young women had what it took to get through the program.

Still doesn't mean that any of them can march Cavaliers or Scouts. :P

[badmatchespartdos]

Personally, I wish both corps would open their door to female membership, but only on a voluntary basis, not via a lawsuit.

liberal hippy

[badmatchespartdos]

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[uncle z]

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[suncontra99]

If a girl really wanted to march with Cavies or Scouts, she would need to grow a ##### and lose that pesky ###### thing.

Seriously, though.. it has been asked before and discussed to death.

Neither organization is government subsidized and both are private fraternal organizations so there's no law that says they have to open their ranks to girls... or anyone really. They reserve the right to determine, by any means, who can and who can not join and by whatever criteria that membership is ultimately offered.

There was a very public court battle a few years back regarding membership in an all male club in the south. I'm pretty sure that court case was lost for the same reasons (private, non-government subsidized...).

If the Cavaliers and the Scouts were the only options out there, I might agree that one or the other organization should allow girls in.. but since there are equal and similar organizations around the country who DO allow girls in their ranks, I just don't see the reason why anyone would want to waste the money on a relatively unwinnable court battle.

Stef

But the Cavaliers are Sponsored by the Village of Rosemont. If this isn't financial support they are still in some way supported by the city, no...yes?? I have always been told by some in the activity it was financial support.

Also refering back to the young lady who joined the Citadel, I believe. She had plenty of other education and military options to pursue but decided on that particular school and won her case in court.

I don't care either way and it may seem unlikely that it could happen but a person with money and plenty of free time could make a go at it and probably win. Well maybe not in Wisconsin but in the Chicago area, I think they would have a good chance.

Edited November 15, 2006 by suncontra99

[ScribeToo]

But the Cavaliers are Sponsored by the Village of Rosemont. If this isn't financial support they are still in some way supported by the city, no...yes?? I have always been told by some in the activity it was financial support.

{snip}

I don't care either way and it may seem unlikely that it could happen but a person with money and plenty of free time could make a go at it and probably win. Well maybe not in Wisconsin but in the Chicago area, I think they would have a good chance.

I think the difference is that the Village of Rosemont is just one of the sponsors of the corps... it's more like a corporate sponsorship than a government subsidy.

They provide in kind donations of offices, warehousing for the trucks.. but they are not the sole support or subsidy and they do so in return for naming rights and signage. The Village gets the corps' services at events and plenty of positive publicity, as well. The Citadel was not the Georgia Citadel.. it was just "The Citadel" and taxes of the citizens helped pay for it to be there. It's a different set up altogether.

So there's a definite difference between a subsidy and a sponsorship. Somewhere in the legal mumbo-jumbo defining those two things lies the difference between them and why the law wouldn't exactly apply the same way as it would to a state funded school such as the Citadel would. I think it's because tax dollars are not collected to support them or something.

Either way.. the main source of funding for the corps is self-generated. They rely on sponsorships in exchange for signage and naming.. sales of souvenirs and donations from fans. They are self-supporting and do not rely on grants and chunks of funds from the government to exist from year to year.. for that reason the government's discrimination laws don't apply to them. They are wholly independent of government support and therefore wholly exempt from affirmitive action or equal opportunity.

I don't think anyone would win such a lawsuit and with enough research prior to bringing such a suit, someone would likely realize it's frivolous and would be mired down in red tape or just plain thrown out of court because they are privately funded.

Stef

[uncle z]

Anyway, where would the new guys go pee if there were girls in the corps???

[JayM]

Cavaliers have had female instructional staff in the past and they always have female support staff.

Stef

Do you happen to know when the last time they had a female instructional staff member was?

In my time with the corps, the entire instructional staff was all-male, mostly because most of the Cavaliers' instructional staff consists of alumni.

We always had female volunteers, cooks, bus drivers, etc, and really just many great women who help the organization run well, but the idea idea of a female instructor seems off to me, if only because we never had them during my tenure.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Jayzer

[jeffro21]

Regardless of if it's non-profit or who sponsors the corps, I think the bottom line is that you can't sue to become a member of a group that has specific guidelines and requires an audition. If a girl did sue and actually did win, all that she could possibly win would be the opportunity to audition. From that point, if the corps didn’t want her to make the final cut, they would say “no” and she wouldn’t make the corps. End of story.

[rgortowski]

Do you happen to know when the last time they had a female instructional staff member was?

In my time with the corps, the entire instructional staff was all-male, mostly because most of the Cavaliers' instructional staff consists of alumni.

We always had female volunteers, cooks, bus drivers, etc, and really just many great women who help the organization run well, but the idea idea of a female instructor seems off to me, if only because we never had them during my tenure.

Jayzer,

I remember Rosie teaching the rifle line for years in the 90's. Unfortunately, I'm too old and senile to remember exactly when, but she instructed for many years.

Blue Rock