Bob984 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 PR was first or second in the brass and percussion captions and in Music GE at most of the shows they attended last summer. Not sure how that jives with 'substantially under rewarded' :P .....Phantom was substantially under rewarded at finals in music effect, when they supposedly "lost" that caption to Cavaliers.........as the hall of famers said around me....no way......ditto in brass performance.......percussion was the only caption they consistently won, which was well deserved........... When critics critique a film, theatre performance, painting, etc, they judge the effectiveness of the whole product, not just the elements that they're most familiar with. This change seems to try and push the upstairs judging in the same direction. Whether we like it or not, integration is the path we're on, and it makes no sense to keep the GE judges artificially cloistered when the show design is looking to break free of that. a great musical score can lift an average movie, and great acting with average music will still make for a good film....however, both elements STILL STAND ON THEIR OWN......if the music is great but not the theatrics, it is the musical score that will be remembered.....if it is the acting but not the music, the soundtrack will be long forgotten.....yes, the best film is when both are great.............and sorry, but that film critic isn't fully qualified to assess the musical product, nor would he know the elements of music in detail if there are deficiencies there...............if what you are saying is totally true, than I guess Stevie Wonder has no chance at enjoying a drum corps performance.....at least not some of them (lol)......having one effect concept will simply make visual design even more overemphasized than it is, with little concern if the musical arrangement can stand on it's own two feet, and it will now be permitted to be evaluated by someone who does not have a musical degree/background..... I'd disagree with Lance that this would inherently give a push toward more original music shows. What it WOULD likely do is make show designers think a little harder during the off-season about the specific moments they're looking to create, and design toward those ends. That's all a good thing, to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) In other words, Regiment should have scored a 105.3 and Cavaliers should have been a 95.something, because Regiment was playing MAHLER (in a savagely truncated arrangement that was specifically written to support the supposed thematic needs of their show, but still, MAHLER... :doh:) . Got it. B) Get to know some professional theatre and film critics for major American newspapers, and I think you'd be surprised to discover how well-rounded their arts education is. In the cases of my friends who are critics, they can discuss many related art forms (music, painting, literature, dance) as well as their field of specialty. There's no reason to believe that in the judging community in drum corps, there aren't a goodly number of adjudicators whose taste and education makes them well-qualified to judge whether a package is working together intelligently or not. Edited January 5, 2007 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't like the idea of two people judging the same caption. What will we think when two judges award vastly different scores to the same corps during the same performance? We'll be glad that they weren't both slotting. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 We have to ask who this ultimately benefits...and if this would change the landscape even more.It's certainly an aim to intergrate audio/visual as seamlessly as possible, but does this give two people even more power than the current GE setup already has? A cursory read of the proposal makes it sound like its a good idea; but, overall, does this turn everyone towards a certain style of design? Kind of the same thing I was thinking. I am OK with a GE judge evaluating overall effect across all captions. However, I don't like the proposal's overemphasis on the concept of seamless synthesis of music and visual. Sometimes, effect is achieved by stopping movement and drawing attention to a musical highlight (or conversely, a silent visual move). I wouldn't want to see the verbage on the sheets prevent such effects from getting the credit they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 It's nothing but pop psychology being implemented...and we've seen the negative results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) Sometimes, effect is achieved by stopping movement and drawing attention to a musical highlight (or conversely, a silent visual move). Which would, if I might, be an example of the musical and the visual writing working in good harmony with each other. That's the type of thing that would be rewarded under this proposal. The two categories shouldn't be mutually exclusive of each other up in the box, imho. Edited January 5, 2007 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ...so we cover "art" with this proposal. With two judges covering so much, does execution get lost in the shuffle even more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS0527 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) The effect judges, as they stand now, are expected to note great symmetry/coherence between audio and visual...I've heard this happening on the DVD judge tracks..this is why we shouldn't blindfold the music judge or somehow impede a visual judge's hearing...Jeff Mitchell has talked about this a time or two while lurking around here I do not think a visual person should be examining music except in the above vein...I sure wouldn't feel comfortable judging visual things except in the above vein... I know that there's training for the individual captions, but I cannot see the training as being enough for a visual person to judge music knowledgably or vice versa Edited January 6, 2007 by JMS0527 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't like the idea of two people judging the same caption. What will we think when two judges award vastly different scores to the same corps during the same performance? We'll think the same thing we do already when it happens. Except this time it'll occur all in one night, instead of two back-to-back nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 this one is a toss-up for me, and I don't think it would affect the GE caption that much. I mean, GE visual is there to see how the design of the show fits the music, and the GE music is there to see how the music fits with the design of the show. I would vote no though, just as a means of keeping a clear focus on either two, but an overall GE wouldn't hurt with today's show designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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