sopchick_01 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't think money is it or at least all of it. According to everything you hear Pioneer is mor financially sound than several top 12 corps. The rest that could be a big part. The all Irish all the time thing is probably part of Pioneers problem as well as shows that go on for ever. Probably points back to the top again Well see, the reason I said money is a big issue is that that's been the with some of the southern california corps. Just look at San Diego Alliance, West Coast Sound, Esperanza. One of the main reasons they struggle is money. Granted, there may be other parts such as lack of membership or staffing or whatever, but anyway you look at it, its been money thats been one of the primary issues. And yes, I could be wrong... Just my $0.02.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI89DM Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 to me, it seems that a lot of times, all Pioneer needs is one year...one year where the kids play past their expectations..where the staff makes a show that a little "something" more that catches the judges and crowds eyes and ears....excellence breeds excellence...suppose Pioneer had a magical year...the show was the right show at the right time...a few more kids in the corps...and all the kids just played their ***'s off..(not saying they don't normally)...and Pioneer moves up close to the #12 spot.... then people realize...wow...pioneer almost in the top 12...I have to check them out....etc., etc. the older members stay...they get more new members....there is more of an expectation to improve... seems to me a lot of corps went this route..bluecoats, blue knights, glassmen... for a long time, bluecoats major goal was to beat pride of cincinnati..and then something happened (pride folding I think was part of it) and then they had a new goal... I'm one of the HUGE fans of tradition, but even I think that using an all Irish/celtic theme all the time is not the way they need to continue...don't abandon the tradition, but expand on it I agree. This is true for any corps. Im waiting for that magical year. I enjoy watching many of these lower division corps..... especially Pioneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Don't worry about Pioneer, Southwind or any other smaller corps. With the rate corps are dropping they'll be in the top 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashhelmi36 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) Don't worry about Pioneer, Southwind or any other smaller corps. With the rate corps are dropping they'll be in the top 12. How do you know they won't be the ones dropping? I keed, I keed. :P (Someone had to say it) Edited January 5, 2007 by crashhelmi36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm interested to see if Troop continues to rehash the same formula, or if they try a new direction in the years to come to compensate for the poor location.... I think that is already taking place by having additional satellite camps in Idaho and Tennessee (there is a lot of Troop's brass staff in Knoxville at UT); the change to multi-key and the changes in repertoire is a strong step. I am still concerned with location, however. Isolation does create delays in getting the full complimen together for camps (much less the havoc blizzards create... ) It will be a challenge to get a jump on drill with a good chunk of the corps in the South...but the staff looks like it is being very creative. And the staff itself is top notch! Edited January 6, 2007 by prodigal bari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'm interested to see if Troop continues to rehash the same formula, or if they try a new direction in the years to come to compensate for the poor location.... I think that's one reason Troopers are holding camps in other parts of the country like Tennessee. Perhaps Pioneer would benefit from the same approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'm certain that money is a huge issue, but I'm also thinking that "corps reputation" has a great deal to do with it nowadays. Back in "my day" joining a corps was more of a "local" issue - whichever corps was closest to where you lived determined which corps to join. Now we're faced with people all over the world wanting to be in Cavaliers, Scouts, Phantom, BD, SCV, Bluecoats, Cadets, and thus we've developed an elite class of corps members who believe that any corps not in the top 12 is "beneath them" - therein lies the problem! IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Alot of pieces have to fall into place for a corps to move up competitively. Once a corps is "up there", it is easier, because they will now draw talent. If you haven't been up there, you have to go find talented members to buy in....it's possible, but hard, and you are still competing against corps who are recruiting with track records..... Getting a few to buy in from a great college program can help, especially if they start bringing friends. Now, you still need to pay a great staff who can teach and write a great show, and then you have to prepare well. Even with all of that, it's not a one year process. Actually, to watch a corps succeed at it, perhaps take a look at Blue Stars.....they were successful in Div III, grew to Div II size than full size, continued to progress, and made the move at the right time last year....a VERY respectable 1st year open return effort, and if they return members and had a good recruit year this winter, they will contend very seriously for the night show in just their second year after returning to open competition. Even back in the 70's and 80's, there was a myth among lower ranked competitors that once they have size, all will be well and they will be world beaters. Then they find out that talent and show content also are huge factors, they come up way short, get their teeth kicked in competitively, adults "promise" success and it doesn't happen, and suddenly that corps is holding on for dear life to survive.....it happened alot..... You pointed to Pioneer, and some others......I do feel it is a good thing that the "open" experience can be offered to corps who may not be all that competitive......as long as the members have a positive experience, all is good, and face it....perhaps not only the most talented deserve to go out there and do it...the kids in these corps get up every morning on tour and bust their tail just like everyone else, and there is far more to be gained/learned from corps other than what place you came in or the score you achieved.....I would agree with you, though, that if a corps wishes to be competitive and they haven't been, the only way it is going to happen is through change and hard work........it would depend if that is important to them or not...some corps might be totally content with the "niche" that they provide their members, and thus competitiveness is very secondary..........GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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