xtreme0204 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I right with you there tempotantrum. Also, we have to take demand into focus. Maybe the Cavie's show was much more demanding than others, thus the dropping and recovering (at least in this judges eyes) was outweighed by how exposed the guard was and how demanding the show was. I'm not sure this was the case, but it is a possibility. I've watched the 2002 dvd's a lot, and I definately think that the Cavies guard was the best (I'm not a guard person, thats just my OPINION) and deserved the win. The perfect score though? I think the judge could easily justify it (somehow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profhill Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 So, by that logic, if both run throughs of a guard show exhibit superior technique and equipment control, but one has a few "fluke" drops, they should be scored the same? Am I understanding this correctly? That makes absolutely no sense. You aren't understanding correctly. On most sheets there is a chorography sub caption and a performance sub caption. It is possible that Guard A would have a higher chorography number and guard B would have a higher performance number. And it would depend on how much difference there is between each guard in each subcaption. The guards would never be scored the same: The first rule of judging is NO BOTTOM LINE TIES!!!!!! (Well, they might be scored the same, but the judge probably would never judge again.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantombari1 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 As usual in judging it's a matter of opinion that leaves to much room for argument! IMO drops are drops and should be judged accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 You aren't understanding correctly. On most sheets there is a chorography sub caption and a performance sub caption. It is possible that Guard A would have a higher chorography number and guard B would have a higher performance number. And it would depend on how much difference there is between each guard in each subcaption. The guards would never be scored the same: The first rule of judging is NO BOTTOM LINE TIES!!!!!! (Well, they might be scored the same, but the judge probably would never judge again.) I understand how sheets work. It's the same deal with percussion sheets with the Musicianship and Technique subs. The question I was asking was not if a guard with a few drops COULD be scored higher. Suppose two guards have equally difficult and well written work (i.e. equal choreography sub score). One guard has a run with no drops, another has a few drops...some people suggest that those drops can be overlooked, and not impact the score as long as the guard demonstrates good technique throughout, because "drops happen". I don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profhill Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The question I was asking was not if a guard with a few drops COULD be scored higher. Suppose two guards have equally difficult and well written work (i.e. equal choreography sub score). One guard has a run with no drops, another has a few drops...some people suggest that those drops can be overlooked, and not impact the score as long as the guard demonstrates good technique throughout, because "drops happen". I don't agree. Well, yes a guard with a few drops could be scored higher. Excellence is not only if you catch your equipment. If you look past the obvious big mistakes there might be reason to score the guard with more drops higher in excellence. We're not saying they wouldn't impact the score, we're saying that they're not a death blow to any sub-caption score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaritoneBamBam Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 So, by that logic, if both run throughs of a guard show exhibit superior technique and equipment control, but one has a few "fluke" drops, they should be scored the same? Am I understanding this correctly? That makes absolutely no sense. It's much more complicated than that. But you get the idea, there are several examples that are wrought throughout the years. Finals night 2004 Blue Devils vs 2004 Cavaliers vs 2004 Cadets check their finals scores out... This is DCI here and drops are considered flukes if only one to around a maximum three drops. Anymore would most likely tell the judge, there is some very odd bad technique or bad showmanship that are getting their fingers and hands lazy to catch those tosses. It shouldn't be that complicated of a subject, since no one likes seeing drops. Judge, Staff, or Fan, they just look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick Stack Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Cavaliers 2002- Multiple sails in a triangle feature in the opener. One flag drop in the ballad. One rifle break in the opener. A drumstick dropped. One of the guys forgot the Fight Club dance. The guy who was thrown in the air was caught lopsided and sidekicked someone in the face. That being said... This is a perfect case of two things. One-There is no way a judge would catch ALL of these things. This was caught from watching one show over 50 times with multiple vantage points, some being much closer than the press box or wherever the judge is. Two- Design is weighed heavier than execution. I shouldn't even say that, that is over generalizing it. I can say this with certainty. A few drops will not make or break a show. Bad design or more truthfully a lack of excellent design will make or break a show. And, to be completely honest, a few drops (2 or 3) in a drum corps show is an EXTREMELY good performance. It takes almost the entire season for most guards to perfect what they are doing so that during a show, only a few flukes happen. The point is- They happen. And judges take this into account. A guard with no drops in a show generally would make me think they aren't challenged enough. Edited January 11, 2007 by Stick Stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaritoneBamBam Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 One of the guys forgot the Fight Club dance.The guy who was thrown in the air was caught lopsided and sidekicked someone in the face. :sshh: :sshh: :sshh: :sshh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick Stack Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) :sshh: :sshh: :sshh: :sshh: Yup, it's true. And they're both on the main cam. But most of the time people are so blown away by the GE that they don't even notice. Kinda like the judges! B) Edited January 11, 2007 by Stick Stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom&Phitch Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I right with you there tempotantrum. Also, we have to take demand into focus. Maybe the Cavie's show was much more demanding than others, thus the dropping and recovering (at least in this judges eyes) was outweighed by how exposed the guard was and how demanding the show was. I'm not sure this was the case, but it is a possibility. I've watched the 2002 dvd's a lot, and I definately think that the Cavies guard was the best (I'm not a guard person, thats just my OPINION) and deserved the win. The perfect score though? I think the judge could easily justify it (somehow). eric, shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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