The Death of DCI

[IntheMood]

Oh please -- sure you only need two teams to play one game, but no way MLB would survive with only two teams. How long would the ticke-buying public be interested in Yankees-Red Sox all day, every day. Every MLB team understands that to survive in the high dollar marketplace they are now in, they must be a member of this cooperative (MLB) to generate the interest and competitive atmosphere. Therefore, they all, to some extent, agree to limit their own business freedoms for the betterment of all (and therefore, hopefully, themselves in the long run.) For example, roster size, salray cap in some sports, etc. But also non-competite stuff like possible ownership structure and oversight rules and the like because they (the member teams) believe that these sometimes restricting and intrusive measures are better for the organization (MLB).

Any drum corps or two can go off on their own any time they want and arrange head to head meetings or just perform on their own in exhibition. Fine. But if they want to be part of a competitive structure in which to grow and thrive, then they should understand on some level that their individual business success depends on the health of the org as a whole, and that even their competitive success is deemed credible when the whole org is healthy and on a somewhat even playing field.

As a business model, which is the original point I was making, DCI is similar to sports leagues -- not very similar to airline industry.

Agreed. MLB also does something else right that DCI should take notice. The teams are very invloved in the local community. And the community shows their love for the team in return. For example the Reds last won a World Series in 1990. Yet they still draw over 2 million fans a year. (This is small market) Does MLB market to the youth of today? Yes of course. But they do it in a way that does not alienate the long time fans of Baseball. Baseball takes the game to the streets, and cornfields of America. To young people who would of never had a chance to play ball. Just look at all the young girls that are playing baseball today. One day there be a Woman in MLB. I would find it hard to believe that MLB would put a lot of time and engery in marketing the game to High School and Collage baseball players. Would they not be fans all ready?

DCI must put the same amout of time and effort for the nonband member, as they do for the band member. And at a younger age. DCI must interact with their fan base off the field. Why not create a Drum Corps Experience at big shows. For example. Have cardboard cuts of all the Corps unis. Where people could stick their heads through and have their picture taken. Have them march in front of a green screen. Let them hold a horn from past to present. Let them put on a drum. Anything hands on. Get a 18 wheeler and jam it full of Drum Corps history, and let people walk through. There are young people out there who really look up to Drum Corps members. Give them a chance to meet a member of their favorit Corps. Have a 10 min. meet and greet after a show.

How cool would it be if DCI created an Alumni Drum and Bugle Corps? The very best of the best of all Decades. They could perform at different local shows to help bing in long lost fans. What great exposure for The Drum and Bugle Corps activity.

Some say DCI is dying. If this is true, then why not try to do everything you can to save the activity. Instead of standing on the sidelines pointing fingers at each other and do nothing. Some of use talk about how Drum and Bugle Corps is a big family. Reading some of these post you could not tell. It is clear many of the young members respect the past and those that marched before them. I may not agree with some of the things being said by today's members. But many of today's members have earned my respect.

[Lance]

It is MY opinion Lance (and by the way I am a fan and alum) that DCI is doing things that are conterproductive to it's survival...it is my humble opinion that DCI is not listening to it's fan base. If DCI continues to do that it will cease to survive

Obviously, we disagree. You're entitled to your opinion, but you can't say you don't speak for "the fans," and then come back and say that DCI is not listeing to its "fan base." It just doesn't work. You can't say that if DCI continues to ignore its "fan base", it will die, and then claim that you're not trying to speak for the majority of fans. It just doesn't work.

We both have people who agree with us, but neither of us can say that our opinion represents the majority of "the fan base," no matter how much anecdotal evidence either of us give. You and I are both part of this "fan base" you speak of, and DCI cannot simultaneously be listening to me and giving me, and those who agree with me, exactly what we want, while at the same time "not listening to its fan base." It just doesn't work.

Anyhoo, I'm not trying to be offensive, I promise. This always ends up becoming a circular discussion...hence 40+ pages of the same things being said over and over again.

Take care.

[Vagabond Skyliner]

I'll come out and say the non-PC thing. The reality is that the demographic of the kids participating over the past 15-20 years has changed and these days it's dramatically different than it was 30+ years ago.

Back then, it was more of a community activity centered around more working class neighborhoods. The aim was to keep kids busy to keep them out of trouble. For many kids back then... this is where they picked up the instrument and where they learned how to play.

Now the activity is comprised of more suburban kids that have enough money or access to enough money to spend thousands of dollars each year to participate. Most have years of private lessons and perform in other types of ensembles (like wind ensemble, symphony orchestra, chamber ensembles, jazz combos, etc.), and venues such as concert halls (where they're looked at like fools if they clap in between movements).

Likely, it isn't that the shows may have become more boring... it could be that the audience has become just a little bit more behaved (who really wants to spend loads of cash on DVDs and recordings to hear someone shouting-out something stupid?).

Again, though it may not be the PC thing to come out and say... it is pretty much the reality.

AND form the same person the following!

"Many corps is not really necessary... GOOD corps are all that is necessary. The Tour of Champions awhile back is a good indicator of this. If there were ONLY 15-20 corps in the entire country... but they were all at the level of the top 3 corps... guaranteed attendance at shows would be even higher than it is now."

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All I can say it BINGO! EXXXXXactly. You have said it all in those two posts.

Un-like us Old, living in the Past.

We, the , Un-educated, Poor, Un-sofisticated, Un-talented, City living, working class, PEASANTS. Were OK.

But things are done right Now.

And who needs all those Div II III Corps, DCA Corps, or Alumni Corps, getting in the way.

I guess except for something to laugh at, or remind them how bad we were/are.

And How Great it is now.

Perfect ! Just what I needed to read. Another reason not to support, DCI - DIV I.

Edited February 28, 2007 by LucysSkylinerAlumni

[DrumCorpsFan27]

You live in denial.

Comment moved to the Is Drum Corps School thread.

Edited March 1, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Dunno...

I had a stack of credits from Diablo Valley College that I earned through Blue Devils that said something like 'Ensemble - Drum & Bugle Corps' on the transcripts. Juilliard accepted them, every single credit, without so much as a question or smirk.

I studied composition. I had all kinds of cool conversations with professors about some unique challenges that someone would face in writing for a group of performers that were not just sitting there in some chair. They asked ME questions about this... they thought it was an interesting challenge.

Granted, that would be the younger set of professors... not the dinos that wouldn't allow us to even write our history papers on computers (ever been to a swap meet at the Meadowlands looking for an electric typewriter?) because they thought it would make us 'uncommital' or having to write all scores by hand in ink so that we 'finish in our head' and the act of putting it on paper is only a formality.

Anyway, the point is that those that are so adamently against it are those that have little exposure to the activity or those that haven't seen much in 30ish years. Those that have... while it may not be their thing... appreciate the level of committment... and generally complain only about the lack of subtlety and sight reading skills (independant vs. directed interpretation) of many players that have spent a lot of time in corps.

Response found here

Edited March 1, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27

[prodigal bari]

alot of posts on this......What I find interesting is opinion seems to be pretty "polar", but I find myself in the "middle", agreeing with some ponts on both sides (4) I think the shift of judging emphasis from music (65-35) to 50/50 with visual comments starting to flood the musical sheets

has caused problems, and I do have some serious reservations about brass and music effect judging, and I am not alone.

I would like to see the emphasis return to music, and more caption integrity involving that.

This is a major problem. MAJOR.

No matter what is done on the visual side, without the music DC would be nothing more than a glorified drill team. I have not kept up with the sheets as much as I have in previous years; but if this is indeed the case then that explains the disconnect between the corps that emphasize music (Phantom i.e.) and visual (Cavies i.e.) and some of the perceptions that music is de-emphasized.

It has been. And I cannot think for all the world why this has been allowed to happen except for a few within the activity who want to capitolize their visual strengths by tinkering with the balance off captions. I do both arranging/writing and visual; and IMHO it takes more to write the music than it does to design the visual...for even with visually-driven programs they depend on the music for their success...unless they kick the entire caption to the side. And if the judges for the activity are selected with a visual bias, then the balance is skewed even further.

This is very dangerous. I have seen this happen in the band world, and have seen dramatic decreases in attendance at MAJOR events due to this. You can close your eyes, but you cannot close your ears...and no matter how dramatic the visual is, without the music it makes no sense. If this 50/50 balance is the case (and I will take a close look at the sheets as I can find them), then this beyond anything else that has been debated in these forums can eventually kill this activity. And it will be killed from within its very present structure; not from A&E, or the woodwind debate; or multi-key...or 150 members.

And this begs for another question:

Is the adjudication within DCI being quietly tailored for competitive advantage?

[prodigal bari]

Ok, I agree with you on some of these things... I do feel like it is a disservice to the lower corps to feel like that have to play stuff to be on the same plane as the big dogs. I think that is aa combination of a few factors, but won't go into that. I hate hearing chamber music as much as the next guy, but there is a tasteful way to do everything and make it relevant, it's just that we have a lot of designers who don't know how to play to both crowds... THAT is the problem the old people have more than the new... Different people here for different reasons. simple as that.

With all due respect I find your charaterization condensending and offensive. It would be like me saying that your opinions are invalid due to you being less than half my age. Either you are open-minded (although with different tastes) or not.

Age has nothing to do with that. <**> And it takes away from what otherwise is a valid point.

Edited March 1, 2007 by prodigal bari

[SCVsopAaron]

With all due respect I find your charaterization condensending and offensive. It would be like me saying that your opinions are invalid due to you being less than half my age. Either you are open-minded (although with different tastes) or not.

Age has nothing to do with that. <**> And it takes away from what otherwise is a valid point.

...

Look. I REALLY wasn't trying to be condescending. You can't argue that there is not a gap between the OLDER generations and the YOUNGER ones. That's ALL I'm saying... I'm not saying your opinions are invalid. jeeze. In fact, I'm incredibly open minded... I have strong opinions, but I am probably the most open minded person you'll ever meet (or won't)... If you give me an argument, I'll listen to it. I won't shut you down for no reason just cuz I don't like it or cuz I said so. I'm just providing an example of the VERY OBVIOUS divide here... There's old school and new school. Sorry for offending you, but I don't think it's warranted.

Edited March 1, 2007 by SCVsopAaron

[danielray]

Response found here

link goes just to main page...

[danielray]

AND form the same person the following!

"Many corps is not really necessary... GOOD corps are all that is necessary. The Tour of Champions awhile back is a good indicator of this. If there were ONLY 15-20 corps in the entire country... but they were all at the level of the top 3 corps... guaranteed attendance at shows would be even higher than it is now."

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All I can say it BINGO! EXXXXXactly. You have said it all in those two posts.

First... when I say Good corps... I am not only referring to performance level, but more to financial stability, organizational/operational consistency.

Un-like us Old, living in the Past.

We, the , Un-educated, Poor, Un-sofisticated, Un-talented, City living, working class, PEASANTS. Were OK.

But things are done right Now.

And who needs all those Div II III Corps, DCA Corps, or Alumni Corps, getting in the way.

I guess except for something to laugh at, or remind them how bad we were/are.

And How Great it is now.

Perfect ! Just what I needed to read. Another reason not to support, DCI - DIV I.

That isn't exactly what I said.

I said that the current participant demographics are considerably different than those 30+ years ago. Current participants have a much broader formal music education than those decades ago. This is an indisputable fact.

I also stated that the purpose of organizations now are completely different than those 30+ years ago and have dramatically different forms of management. Rather than being sponsored by a local church, VFW post, police dept., etc. the top corps come from organizations focused on music and perfoming ensembles, that have multi-million dollar budgets.

Read into that whatever suits you, for whatever point you wish to make. I was simply stating the facts, along with the elephant in the room that everyone ignores for PC reasons... the demographics have changed.