The "balanced" scoring system

[CrossmenAlumni]

I guess I must be deaf or something or getting senile as I get older, because every show I've been to in the past six or seven years where the Cavaliers have been at, I've seen and heard audiences go NUTS for them. (shrugs shoulders)

Edited February 23, 2007 by CrossmenAlumni

[Matt_S]

One of the major violators of this I feel is color guard judging. Just look at how much time The Cavies' guard did nothing but pass rifles onto the field, sit on the sideline while three members stretched the box shape the corps was in, etc. this past year. The total content of their show resulted in a significantly less total amount of difficulty than any other top eight corps so how did they score so high?

For your answer, watch the color guard cam on the DVDs. For even more, listen to Jeff Fiedler's commentary. You've picked two moments out of the show to claim that there was no difficulty. Someone already mentioned that the entire corps contributed to the ElastiCorps drill move which included the guard; I'll comment on the other moment you picked. When the multi-camera angle showed you those five or six guard members passing rifles onto the field one at a time, several other pods of guard were still out there doing work. If you've got the DVDs, take a look and you'll see what I mean.

[rut-roh]

For your answer, watch the color guard cam on the DVDs. For even more, listen to Jeff Fiedler's commentary. You've picked two moments out of the show to claim that there was no difficulty. Someone already mentioned that the entire corps contributed to the ElastiCorps drill move which included the guard; I'll comment on the other moment you picked. When the multi-camera angle showed you those five or six guard members passing rifles onto the field one at a time, several other pods of guard were still out there doing work. If you've got the DVDs, take a look and you'll see what I mean.

Which is why I dug the way they made that equipment transition. Most corps would just run the guard up to the front sideline or something, have them drop off one piece of equipment, pick up the next and then get ready to go out onto the field. Cavaliers instead even made the TRANSITION fit the theme of the show. It was one of the most unique equipment transitions I have ever seen. :)

[marshamello]

The entire color guard was actually on the field as part of the drill with the rest of the corps during the "elastic" section, which lasted about 30 seconds.

Sorry, thanks for the correction as to the placement of the guard at this point in the show. But I still feel that this should have negatively affected the "demand" score for the guard and positivley affected the GE Visual - as things like this should affect any corps' score equally.

ALSO, while the rifles were doing that one-by-one transition from the sideline......what I considered to be a unique and perfectly theme-appropriate way of transitioning their equipment........the sabres were already in the drill being a featured visual element, so it's not as if nothing was happening with the guard while they got those rifles.

The transition should, again, have NOT added much value to the demand score for the guard but SHOULD have added to the visual GE. I also feel that if only 1/4 of the guard is doing something, like in this transition, there should be less value added to the final score. I felt that the Blue Devils guards used to do this a lot in the 90's where they would have 1/3 to 1/2 of the guard featured up front pretty much throughout the show doing amazing saber and rifle work while the reamining 1/2 to 2/3 were lined up along the back doing generic flag work with small flags.

Back to the 2006 Cavies, after the transition, the entire guard (eventually - gosh that took forever) ended up on rifles and then ended up doing almost nothing during the entire ballad other than some posing and hand stands; oh and a FEW tosses for good measure. And that was for a lot more than 30 seconds! Again, they added to the Visual GE, but there wasn't much demand to add to the guard sheets.

Edited February 23, 2007 by marshamello

[marshamello]

If you've got the DVDs, take a look and you'll see what I mean.

I've seen the DVDs many times and saw them live six times. Still has the same "not much demand" impact on me throughout this transition and during the entire ballad.

[igor230]

Interesting, in the end, I feel this is a musical activity with a very strong visual component. I voted for the 51-59 but might go with more. If you could choose just to hear the ensemble perform the music or just see them march the drill, what would you pick?

[Phantombari1]

There has to be a formula that will allow a more even judgement of the corps performance. Visual as important as it is shouldn't drive the music but enhance what is being played (IMO)

In more recent years the only cavaliers show that (IMO) was came close to balancing was 007.

2006 albeit a good show could not (IMO) compare to the 2007 or other Cavaliers championships.

[ContrasAreFun]

I'm cool with 50/50, but you also have to remember that a good marching technique/ basics between the members also result in good brass scores. Without good posture, fluidity, etc., there's no way someone can play their instrument well going at lets say 200 bpm.

[Jocko the Wonder Llama]

51%-59%?

Well, now we know who isn't going to be giving 110% this summer. :P

[LAMystreaux]

Then why have seperate music and visual GE scores? Just have one integrated GE score - but give it less weight than the two combined. Whether it happens today or not, I think Music GE should primarily be about the emotion, message and story that the music portrays and how well the corps gets that across.

Maybe there should be three GE scores? One for visual that's just about the impact of the drill/guard, one that's just music about the emotions/story of the music, and one for integration that covers the "I see the music", "I heard the drill" aspects.

Giving benefit to "I see the music" and "I hear the drill" in today's scoring system ends up giving double the effect of the integration of the two with less impact from each individually (and becomes more about your drill writer than music selection) . This is one of the main reasons for today's less emotionally impactful shows that get the audience out of their seats less often then the past when seen live and sound sort of lacking when listened to on CDs later (like most of The Cavies' shows of the past seven year IMHO).

Awesome! I have thought for years now that the idea of seperate GE scores is dumb. There should be one GE score, and it should be worth less than the 40% it is worth now. I think more should be weighted towards performance captions. All too often we have seen the corps with the best design win, and at the same time be out-executed.