Is Drum Corps "School?"

[CrossmenAlumni]

I think it is lame for drum corps to use such terminology for the purpose of self-stroking. We already know who the "gods" of drum corps are. I don't need them to build their own pedestals.

1) That's not the purpose. Until you understand that, there's not much further we can discuss.

2) If you're going to take cheap pot-shots at these people and drift into the grey areas of character assassination, please take it somewhere else. It doesn't make you or anyone around here look good. I'd like to think we're all better than that.

Let's keep some perspective here. These are just words. Nobody is REQUIRING that you call them what those corps call them. If you want to refer to them as members, staff, dues, and instructors, by all means you are entitled to. Just as long as you recognize and respect that those corps have just as much right as you do to call them what THEY want as it relates to THEIR corps. Live and let live.

[danielray]

Would you have received those credits had you only had been marching with Blue Devils C or B?

No, because their programs do not meet the qualifications for this. In order to actually be offered as a for credit course, there are a number of requirements that must be met, just the same as any other course offered at a fully-accredited institution. These include educators with the proper credentials, a formal curriculum, etc.

Why not? It's still drum corps with faculty and students.

See above.

Oh wait, an accredited educational institution had to approve it, formalizing your credits.

See above.

Does every Blue Devil member get those credits? No?

Every participant in the A Corps receives this credit. I believe that there was also this option for winterguard when there was a World class guard.

Ah, only students of the college get the credits. So, who is the educational institution, the Blue Devils, or Diablo Valley?

I have never set foot on DVC campus for any other purpose than rehearsals connected with Blue Devils. I never even applied to the college, paid them any tuition or attended any other courses.

As far as I remember, all we had to do was complete some form if we wanted these credits and the transcripts were sent to the school I was actually enrolled at.

There are numerous parallels to this in the professional world... for example...

The YEO-Stanford Executive Program

The EO/Inc. Magazine Birthing of Giants

Many of these courses are not taught by faculty of Stanford or MIT, but top business leaders that lack academic credentials. The majority of the individuals that attend these courses have never been formal students of these universities. Attendees of these programs, however, receive credit from these universities for their participation... on Stanford or MIT transcripts.

The only difference in the case of many of the individuals teaching drum corps, many of them actually do have appropriate academic credentials... and either teach or have taught on the university level.

[liebot]

I really don't understand why it matters if instructors call themselves faculty. Just another stupid thing for DCPers to get ###### off about. I guess we do deserve the reputation we get amongst staffers and designers.

[marshamello]

I agree TSRTS13. I think this poll needed a third response option: "This is a dumb question and not worth discussing." I'd be willing to bet that this response would get the most votes!!

[Eddie]

it's sort of like debating on whether today's arm-swinging tempo keepers are called drum majors or conductors... or even better, are the horns being used trumpets or sopranos :P

[danielray]

Can they not have that same philosophy without proclaiming themselves as an accredited university-like institution? I say they can. They have for decades. I think they need to get over themselves, I'm just calling them out.

Acutally, not sure what your personal experience is with this, but in most cases it is the other way around. I know that Diablo Valley College, for example benefitted from Blue Devils as much as BD benefitted from DVC.

A unremarkable community college is able to boast about having students enrolled from all over the US and from several countries as well... to perform in a rather remarkable ensemble. They do use this in their marketing materials.

P.S. - click on this link

[karl E. Hungus]

a whole thread on semantics. sweet. the only identification terms i ever used were newguy, oldguy, and various nicknames associated with those whome not to #### with because they were they guys who got paid to be smarter than me. this forum reeks of new.

and no, i didnt vote.

[Nex]

You just said why not call them instructors? Instructors provide instruction, no? Well, sorry to tell you, but:

Tuition - 3 : the price of or payment for instruction

Tuition is a viable term for tour fees. It isn't only associated with colleges.

Same with:

Student - 2 : one who studies : an attentive and systematic observer <a student of politics>

Once again, no mention of a school in the definition. Get on with your life. The terms are legit, and you're just making yourself look pretentious by assuming that you are worthy of critiquing the meaningless aspects of a corps' operations.

[vonriedesel]

You just said why not call them instructors? Instructors provide instruction, no? Well, sorry to tell you, but:

Tuition - 3 : the price of or payment for instruction

Tuition is a viable term for tour fees. It isn't only associated with colleges.

Same with:

Student - 2 : one who studies : an attentive and systematic observer <a student of politics>

Once again, no mention of a school in the definition. Get on with your life. The terms are legit, and you're just making yourself look pretentious by assuming that you are worthy of critiquing the meaningless aspects of a corps' operations.

Beat me to it Nex! Was that the Randsom House Dictionary or the OED?

[DrumCorpsFan27]

And now people are calling YOU out because you're wrong.

Listen Captain Semantics, if you're seriously going to foam at the mouth over something so completely insipid, at least pretend to have some sort of point. One thing drum corps (especially the DCI organization in generally) have been seeming to strive for is to maintain a sort of more professional image as organizations and entertainment units (which is basically what drum corps are). Language is a powerful thing (read 1984), so over time the language has changed, but people still use different terms to refer to the same thing. People will say tuition, or tour fees, or dues. People will say students, or members, or marchers.

You know what I think is self-stroking? When people come on this board and think they know what's best for drum corps, wind up being completely wrong, but still won't get off their pedestal. Jesus, complaining about amps for 28 hours a day is more relevant than this.

Captain Semantics, I like that one. B)

I agree, language IS an important thing. Are you trying to say that drum corps must present itself the same as accredited musical institutions in order to be seen as professional? I don't see this as insipid. I see it as misleading, which is not insipid. Language is important and when people misuse it all willy-nilly it leads to miscommunication.

What pedestal am I on? Just a soapbox. There is no self-stroking going on here because I gain nothing from my stance. I am expressing my opinion. It started to take a life of its own so I moved it off a different thread and started this one. It appears to me that I am not the only one that holds this opinion, which is different than yours.

If the words don't matter to you so much, if they are truly insipid as you say, then why not use the words that some people do feel are important? Then everyone can be happy.

Edited March 1, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27