Heat Wave Inactive?

[mjpudster]

I appreciate the efforts of all who are trying to defend the voting membership of directors in DCA. I'm sure you've all done your best to help expand DCA and make it entertaining for the fan$ and members who have the pleasure of experiencing this great activity through your efforts. However, that does not change the fact that this one rule change negates a good chunk of your efforts when it results in corps folding or going inactive OR never making it out of the starting gate. I'm sorry I've never had the pleasure of sitting down with the voting membership at a DCA meeting. I was part of the meeting that founded DCA-C and helped to form our operating procedures and rules. Thankfully, the corps director that was hired during the off season has taken over those responsibilities and allowed me to focus on my other duties.

Maybe I misstated myself by saying DCA Board when I should have said Voting members of DCA. To me they are the same. All that aside, and without throwing any more mud, I still hold firm that this was a bad rule and has done far more damage than you may realize. I'm a firm believer that there's ALWAYS another alternative to finding a solution to a problem .. you just have to work toward it with conviction. When you have to choose between killing off corps ... and working harder ... I hope they choose working harder in the future. Otherwise, you'll just have more people like me fuming over your poor judgment and seemingly reckless problem solving skills.

Let me try this one more time. What part of a sponsor wanting a corps to be at least 35 members don't you get. You can slice this every way you want, but the bottom line is that if I were a sponsor of a DCA show, shelling out a large chunk of change, and all I got was a bunch of corps with 25-30 members, I would be ######. And as for one rule change negating a good chunk of our efforts, it just ain't so. Yes, Heatwave has gone inactive. Yes, there is a lot of us who will miss them. Is this an indication that the whole activity is in jeopardy, I hardly think so. And as for working harder instead of killing off a corps, who should work harder. Should DCA or the other member corps go out and recruit members for Heatwave or for anyone else who needs members? I'm sorry, but I don't think you really "get it". This, DCA, is an organization made up of individual corps who all want the same thing. They want the opportunity to perform in front of a crowd. They want to remain financially solvent and they want to survive. It use to be that many of the corps could have cared less if another corps folded. They thought in terms that it just meant a greater opportunity for them. Most, if not all, have come to realize that they need as many corps as possible in order to keep the activity fresh and entertaining. The member corps in DCA who voted for the 35 member rule did it because it made sense from a business standpoint. The one thing that most of us have figured out over the years is that although drum corps is a hobby, if you don't run it like a business it will not survive. As you said, "I've never had the pleasure of sitting down with the voting membership at a DCA meeting". Well, until you have maybe you ought to hold your judgement and public chastising of a group with which you are unfamiliar.

Mike

[El_Chestus]

Ok, here we go. How can someone so intelligent sounding say something that stupid. Why should mini corps be be changed to a basically full corps stand-still event. It Wouldn't be mini corps anymore, would it. Lets screw up something else too while we're at it. If Heat Wave doesn't come out, my life will go on. I'm not really into watching a 25 man field corps perform. Stop the drama.

YEO(like Paulie from the Sopranos).........Mike, no need to sugar-coat it .........just tell us how you really feel.... B)

[Sayre Kulp]

Earlier on, someone made the point that I've been trying to get through peoples' thick skulls for years. There are smaller struggling corps in every division all over the country. But Americans tend to be lazy individuals lacking any sort of vision. Therefore, rather than join a struggling local corps and help them achieve greatness, they would rather join a champion straight away and leave the little corps in the dust. Is there any reason when people should be driving from Maryland to Syracuse when there are easily half a dozen corps closer? Or is there any reason why Bucs should have several alternates, but corps like Sky, Shenandoah Sound, Mon Valley Express and others can barely scrape together enough folks for a corps? I know folks can go anywhere they want, and it's nieve for me to suggest otherwise. But the simple fact is that every corps has good people within it's ranks. Shenandoah Sound could be just as impressive as the Caballeros if they had the same membership depth the big corps have. When will people realize that?

[Guard Diva]

Therefore, rather than join a struggling local corps and help them achieve greatness, they would rather join a champion straight away and leave the little corps in the dust.

I considered a struggling local corps, but opted instead to join a little corps that's not so local to me....in fact, it's 2 time zones away! And whil eit's true, they were the champion the year before i joined, I didn't join them because they were the Champion, I joined them becuase they took me when others wouldn't..............and for that, I am eternally grateful.

Is there any reason when people should be driving from Maryland to Syracuse when there are easily half a dozen corps closer?

How about this "because I want to.........because I really enjoy the people in my corps, even if they do live a couple thousand miles away.........because THEY are my family and THEY are the people I want to be with. It's not that I don't like the local people...just that I got to know the ones across the country FIRST because when I was looking, THEY were the ones that were offering what i was looking for....a chance to perform at DCA."

Shenandoah Sound could be just as impressive as the Caballeros if they had the same membership depth the big corps have. When will people realize that?

some people don't do drum corps to go out and be as impressive as the Cabs (who are, by the way, VERY impressive).........some people do it for the love of the activity and the people involved. That is why I I do what I do.....with the people I love!

[jeff danchik]

Earlier on, someone made the point that I've been trying to get through peoples' thick skulls for years. There are smaller struggling corps in every division all over the country. But Americans tend to be lazy individuals lacking any sort of vision. Therefore, rather than join a struggling local corps and help them achieve greatness, they would rather join a champion straight away and leave the little corps in the dust. Is there any reason when people should be driving from Maryland to Syracuse when there are easily half a dozen corps closer? Or is there any reason why Bucs should have several alternates, but corps like Sky, Shenandoah Sound, Mon Valley Express and others can barely scrape together enough folks for a corps? I know folks can go anywhere they want, and it's nieve for me to suggest otherwise. But the simple fact is that every corps has good people within it's ranks. Shenandoah Sound could be just as impressive as the Caballeros if they had the same membership depth the big corps have. When will people realize that?

Sayre, you wouldn't believe how many marched one year, bragged a lifetime people, we run into. DCA and the show sponsors made an unpopular choice and we've all been waiting to see who it hit first. Will there be others, probably, should we be suprised,no. I don't believe DCA had anything to do with regional growth, the regions themselves did it.It scared people, they reacted.I'm resigned to acknowledge the change. We've had our problems but we never wanted to hurt anyone.You work all spring, you pass evaluation, but you're still dealing with people.People don't always keep their commitments, pay their dues or perform their best.As an organization you do the best you can with what ever comes your way. Biggest problem we had was the pressure to return to finals.It clouds people minds and don't see whats happening around them. Time off puts things in perspective. If Heatwave or anyone else can find the will to come back, best to them. It would be so easy to just go away. But that would be easy and anyone who does this wasn't looking for something easy.

Edited May 22, 2007 by jeff danchik

[84BDsop]

Oh, really?

Sam's Logic:

Heat Wave can't get 35 members. (major premise)

Heat Wave goes inactive. (minor premise)

Not getting 35 members causes inactive status. (conclusion)

Question: In what sense has Sam's logic been proven correct?

Answer: There's no way in Hades that Heat Wave's folding has proven anything of the sort.

I DID say that the rule was a contributing factor...I never said the rule BY ITSELF led to HW closing...HW itself said there were other factors...but if you're struggling at the 30 member mark and just can;t recruit to get to 35 -- thus rendering you unable to perform at a show...where's ANYONE'S motivation to join and march? Especially after taking a year off and clearing the books?? all that work and for nothing???

I have ALSO said many times that the gap between mini corps and A class size would hurt someone...

You have your opinion, I have mine, and I'm sticking to mine.

[Shadow_7]

Unfortunately some corps only exist to "compete" at DCA. It's in their charter / mission statement. And if you're not from the region +/- 500 miles, minicorps is NOT an option. It does happen on Friday after all, which isn't even technically part of the Holiday weekend. It's kind of hard to make it to NY from 1,500 miles away within an hour of getting off work. At least at current technology/economic levels.

I guess on the plus side, all those who want to compete at DCA, but can't with their local corps. Can now make other non-NE corps stronger, possibly gaining more votes and moving the championships to Atlanta, Dallas, San Deigo, or San Francisco sooner than expected. So it's not all bad.

Personally I hope Heat Wave comes back, even if it's not this season. I was looking at eventually living in Florida and it would be nice not to have to go out of state to march a drumcorps.

[KeithHall]

I live in Orlando and have seen the Heat Wave a few times. They struggled since day one.

While I respect that people worked hard and have good memories...30 people do NOT make a drum corps in my opinion.

A small corps like Academie Musicale won a DCI World Championship with a very small corps and lets not forget corps like the Charioteers from Troy, AL

How many corps that small were around in the 1960's and 70's? Many! They were drum and bugle corps.

[KeithHall]

It's Mr Spock "Logical Captain." Leave it to Dale to baffle our heads with this.

Hey Heat Wave went inactive the year before because of things that happened internally and not really about the members. Granted some left to follow others to another corps and in the mean time the corps paid ALL their bills off.

The rule shouldn't have been passed by the directors in the first place, but it's going to affect other corps if it stays on the books.

Oh, really?

Sam's Logic:

Heat Wave can't get 35 members. (major premise)

Heat Wave goes inactive. (minor premise)

Not getting 35 members causes inactive status. (conclusion)

Question: In what sense has Sam's logic been proven correct?

Answer: There's no way in Hades that Heat Wave's folding has proven anything of the sort.

This is an example of the post hoc, ergo propter hoc logical fallacy (The sun rises. The rooster crows when the sun rises. The rooster's crowing causes the sun to rise.)

Let's look at some evidence:

2006 - no 35-member rule, Heat Wave inactive.

2007 - 35-member rule, Heat Wave inactive.

The conditions changed from one year to the next, yet the result is the same.

There's no way to exclude ALL OTHER reasons for Heat Wave folding, besides lacking their 35th member. In fact, there's ample evidence to claim that lacking the 35th member (e.g. being delegitimized by rule) had nothing at all to do with HW packing it in: nothing was wrong with Heat Wave that having the 35th member would fix, because they also lacked the 34th member, and the 33rd member, etc.

Looking at it another way: Yes, having a 35th member could be a necessary condition for getting out and competing, but it is not a sufficient condition in this case.

[-EVortex]

Holy cow!! Gump (Dale Bari), you're a got dam genious!! HW 2006 and HW 2007 same result but this year there's a DCA rule to pin the blame. Boo to all you DCA haters, boooooo!

Personally I don't care for the small corps at a show. Show sponsors would rather not have corps that small either, I completely understand.

And hey, no one said the small ones can't perform at a show, they just can't compete. So that argument is silly.

Before you blastpheme all those DCA directors, why not talk to them or attend meetings and get involved. All this back-seat driving is mind-numbing, yet expected. But ya made me look; morbid facsination I suppose.

Also, if it were just numbers, then HW could have just done a drumlaw-esque 'we're-not-going-to-finals-with-just-three-snares' plea like last summer's to fill the ranks. All the complainers here would have gone running to Orlando right? Right.

Anyway, I did like Heat Wave and that DM Vic of theirs. After he left a couple years ago they weren't really the same though. Hope the HW members can find a corps to march with this summer.

Oh, really?

Sam's Logic:

Heat Wave can't get 35 members. (major premise)

Heat Wave goes inactive. (minor premise)

Not getting 35 members causes inactive status. (conclusion)

Question: In what sense has Sam's logic been proven correct?

Answer: There's no way in Hades that Heat Wave's folding has proven anything of the sort.

This is an example of the post hoc, ergo propter hoc logical fallacy (The sun rises. The rooster crows when the sun rises. The rooster's crowing causes the sun to rise.)

Let's look at some evidence:

2006 - no 35-member rule, Heat Wave inactive.

2007 - 35-member rule, Heat Wave inactive.

The conditions changed from one year to the next, yet the result is the same.

There's no way to exclude ALL OTHER reasons for Heat Wave folding, besides lacking their 35th member. In fact, there's ample evidence to claim that lacking the 35th member (e.g. being delegitimized by rule) had nothing at all to do with HW packing it in: nothing was wrong with Heat Wave that having the 35th member would fix, because they also lacked the 34th member, and the 33rd member, etc.

Looking at it another way: Yes, having a 35th member could be a necessary condition for getting out and competing, but it is not a sufficient condition in this case.