84BDsop Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Nope. Other way around. p=1, r=2.Garry in Vegas Uhhhh...Garry? That IS what he said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Don't forget that the early valve bugles were "G/D" horns - that is, the open horn was pitched in G, and pressing the valve lowered it a fourth, to the key of D. Even with the slip slide (and the rotor that replaced it) a fair number of notes were missing from the chromatic scale. No 2nd space A natural, no E, Eb or F natural on the bottom line/space of the staff, no low A or Bb (I'm talking written pitches, btw. Concert pitch a 4th lower, of course). It's a real tribute to the arrangers of the day that the charts sounded as good as they did! Beginning the late 60's, the D valve tubing was gradually replaced by shorter tubing to create the G/Fbugle that became the standard in the DCI era. Although some notes were still inaccessible, the G/F bugle with rotary valve (and its immediate successor, the 2 valve bugle), provided a more complete scale, offering performers and arrangers a much greater variety of sounds and creative options. The addition of the third valve and subsequent change to multi-key represented major changes. But the switch from G/D to G/F was equallly significant, more than many people realize. The classic sound of 70's/80's drum corps is the sound of the G/F horn. "GD to GF": The "GF" bugle was actually "Around" in 1962. Trouble was, nobody was interested. I have a VERY old issue of DCN with Mr Ernie Carroll playing a soprano "GF". The "Two Piston" bugles were also "Around" in the very early 1960s. They were "Over & Under" (Horizontal Pistons", placed so as to "Conceal" them from judges). Ludwig imported them from Germany. I "believe" that the only corps to ever attempt to use them were the senior Reading Buccaneers. Every so often on of these "Over & Under" bugles (Which are in "GD") pops up on E Bay. Elphaba WWW Edited June 7, 2007 by elphaba01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Might have played one of Buccs old horizontal 2V horns when I first started corps end of 1973. Joined a start up corps that bought everything cheap as possible. Might have been a Tenor Bari as I don't remember it being that large. One of the reasons the corps disbanded was the 2V config was not legal for DCA (if I remember right ). Have no idea what happened to the horns after corps disbanded. If I had known then what I know now I would have at least taken pictures. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 "GD to GF":The "GF" bugle was actually "Around" in 1962. Trouble was, nobody was interested. I have a VERY old issue of DCN with Mr Ernie Carroll playing a soprano "GF". The "Two Piston" bugles were also "Around" in the very early 1960s. They were "Over & Under" (Horizontal Pistons", placed so as to "Conceal" them from judges. Ludwig imported them from Germany. I "believe" that the only corps to ever attempt to use them were the senior Reading Buccaneers. Every so often on of these "Over & Under" bugles (Which are in "GD") pops up on E Bay. Elphaba WWW Wow, thanks for the added insight. My first recollection of anyone using the G/F was Blessed Sac of Newark, NJ in 1969, although I'm sure there were other corps making the change around that time, maybe even in '67 or '68. regards, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Wow, thanks for the added insight. My first recollection of anyone using the G/F was Blessed Sac of Newark, NJ in 1969, although I'm sure there were other corps making the change around that time, maybe even in '67 or '68.regards, Fred O. "First Insight": The USAF Academy enlisted corps had a "Mixed Choir" of GF/GD horns in 1967. The Casper Troopers "Cut" their Getzen/Ludwig/Smith "Whatever" bugles to GF "Conversions" for the 1968 season. Both the Troopers and the Velvet Knights were given sets of Olds "Ultratone" (Valve-Rotor) bugles to "Field test" for the 1969 season. Elphaba WWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 "First Insight":The USAF Academy enlisted corps had a "Mixed Choir" of GF/GD horns in 1967. The Casper Troopers "Cut" their Getzen/Ludwig/Smith "Whatever" bugles to GF "Conversions" for the 1968 season. Both the Troopers and the Velvet Knights were given sets of Olds "Ultratone" (Valve-Rotor) bugles to "Field test" for the 1969 season. Elphaba WWW Yes, I recall seeing those G/F conversion kit horns. Folks mounted the tubing upwards, above the piston, to keep moisture from collecting, as the conversion tubing had no spit valve. Depending on the skill of the plumber who did the conversion, I'm sure many of those horns were leaky and had suspicious intonation tendencies. Playing on them must have been quite an experience! And how about that? Nowadays, people are howling about the Cadets, Blue Devils or [insert name of favorite bashing target] climbing into bed with Yamaha/King/Dynasty as part of the grand conspiracy. But way back in the day, VK and America's corps, the Troopers, were getting free stuff. Go figure! I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit as I write. But no disrespect intended, either to the old guard or the new wave - all in good fun, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 "First Insight":The USAF Academy enlisted corps had a "Mixed Choir" of GF/GD horns in 1967. The Casper Troopers "Cut" their Getzen/Ludwig/Smith "Whatever" bugles to GF "Conversions" for the 1968 season. Both the Troopers and the Velvet Knights were given sets of Olds "Ultratone" (Valve-Rotor) bugles to "Field test" for the 1969 season. Elphaba WWW Yes, I recall seeing those G/F conversion kit horns. Folks mounted the tubing upwards, above the piston, to keep moisture from collecting, as the conversion tubing had no spit valve. Depending on the skill of the plumber who did the conversion, I'm sure many of those horns were leaky and had suspicious intonation tendencies. Playing on them must have been quite an experience! And how about that? Nowadays, people are howling about the Cadets, Blue Devils or [insert name of favorite bashing target] climbing into bed with Yamaha/King/Dynasty as part of the grand conspiracy. But way back in the day, VK and America's corps, the Troopers, were getting free stuff. Go figure! I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit as I write. But no disrespect intended, either to the old guard or the new wave - just all in good fun! Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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