How is it that?

[Tom Brace]

Give me a ####### break people, there have been 3 days of competitions and you all have your seasons over. If that's the case, then there's a major problem.

If after this few of shows, the season is over, and everyone is slotted, then the activity is DEAD, the foundation of judging is DEAD. If there can't be changes, improvements, and a different group being able to challenge for placement every night, then the activity is DEAD.

I'll say it again...no scores until quarterfinals.

Solves a lot of these issues.

Quarters is really the first time there is anything at stake. Corps have their season end if they don't score high enough. The current regional competitions would need to change somewhat. But, as lots of people are saying...these scores are all meaningless...then why have them?

What if...we just had judges give comments and tapes to corps? What if, the show just had an annouced winner and that was it? No scores.

Would complete anarchy take place?

[Toby]

I'll say it again...no scores until quarterfinals.

Solves a lot of these issues.

Quarters is really the first time there is anything at stake. Corps have their season end if they don't score high enough. The current regional competitions would need to change somewhat. But, as lots of people are saying...these scores are all meaningless...then why have them?

What if...we just had judges give comments and tapes to corps? What if, the show just had an annouced winner and that was it? No scores.

Would complete anarchy take place?

We saw what happened at BOA Grand Nationals a couple years ago. *Shudders*

[dbc03]

Madison hasn't started that low in 6 years

Troopers haven't started that high in 11 years

Is it really that hard to understand?

[dbc03]

I'll say it again...no scores until quarterfinals.

Solves a lot of these issues.

Quarters is really the first time there is anything at stake. Corps have their season end if they don't score high enough. The current regional competitions would need to change somewhat. But, as lots of people are saying...these scores are all meaningless...then why have them?

What if...we just had judges give comments and tapes to corps? What if, the show just had an annouced winner and that was it? No scores.

Would complete anarchy take place?

I for one would lose a lot of interest in the season.

The scores are just as much for the fans as they are for the corps

[seanedwin]

Hell. I wasn't in Fairfield, but I was in Marshall, WI on Saturday, and saw a solid show, well designed, TAUGHT BY GREAT STAFF TO GREAT MEMBERS GIVEN TO THEM BY GREAT DESIGNERS, but that's just MY OPINION BASED ON THE REALITY OF SEEING A CORPS, and NOT BASING IT OFF SOMEONE WHO HASN"T SEEN THE ####### SHOW.

I couldn't agree more with Todd. Sure, Unbound isn't as clean as other corps' shows, yet it is THE Madison Scouts' 2007 show.

In addition, it feels as if the general feeling about the activity is purely measured by subjective numbers (Scores). I do understand that it is called a competition for a reason, yet the intent of the membership into drum corps seems to be lost. Myself and many of my friends decided to march drum corps to better themselves. We utilized drum corps as a medium to become better people, and the various and respective staff used their knowledge and experience to instill our corps' philosopies. Todd hit the nail on the head when he emphasized "GREAT STAFF...GREAT MEMBERS...GREAT DESIGNERS". If that doesn't sound like an ideal place to march, then I guess there are bigger fish to fry.

The general attutude in the corps is extremely positive. Perhaps the viewpoint about Madison can change from that of a pessimistic one, to an optomistic one. One of the best quotes I learned on tour was written on our white-board. I believe it was shared by Mark Waymire, "Negativity breeds negativity". Constructive critisism is much more preferable than meer venting about "What you think the corps should/shouldn't do". For example, If you think there is too much green on the new unis, then suggest alterations as some people have. "I HATE THEM" isn't a valid reason as to why you don't like them.

Regardless of what subjective number is associated with them, The Madison Scouts are on the right track.

Edited June 20, 2007 by seanedwin

[Tom Brace]

You are exactly right. Unfortunately, I think the majority of people on this site get their opinion of a group based on what they read in reviews, from judges, etc. rather than seeing a corps perform.

Considering that most of the people that read this site will never see a lot of these corps perform live, or will only see the ESPN 2 minutes, we are in a sad world when it comes to good honest information, or solid opinions based on PERSONAL viewings.

Hey Todd...

Relax buddy. I've told several people on here recently just to ignore me if what I say bugs them. Everything said in the last few posts is exactly right. DCP is and will always be a place for the less than informed to have a forum. We can't all be traveling with the corps...we can't have gone to every rehearsal...be on staff.....be a marching member anymore.

It's a place for us to bullsquat about drum corps. It's something that EVERYONE on here is passionate about.

Every year corps perform as expected, achieve more than expected, and sadly less than expected. That reality will be fully realized in August. Until then...anyone officially associated with a corps who believes anything said on DCP impacts what happens on the field or how their organizations are run are just WRONG. It doesn't harm organizations...it's just speech. The Boston Commons soapbox where everyone can have their say. I could not believe that a staff member of a corps contacted me with an IM last night about something I wrote. Why do they even bother? More importantly, wouldn't their time be better spent doing something else? Shouldn't they be workign harder to make their corps better than to be on DCP correcting an Olde Pharte like me?

I guess I was misinformed regarding the departure of Sal Salas from Madison last year. I was corrected last night and again this morning and I officially apologize for propogating this misinformation on DCP. I'm sorry and I retract the statement I made. I'll go back and edit the post so it is correct as well. My understanding is that there was a difference of opinion regarding management style resulting in Sal's departure. It's the past and I'm sure the present and immediate future is more important.

What I want to know...more than anything else really isn't about scores at all. Is Madison capable of putting together a show this year to cause audience members...like myself...to want to take kitchen appliances and small children and hurl them toward the field? 1999 like...2005 like? I remember the end of the 1993 Regiment show...I was on my feet screaming for like the whole last minute. I believe it's what more of us...here on DCP want to see from the top corps and it's not about the score.

<off soapbox now>

[toddschultz]

Madison hasn't started that low in 6 years

Troopers haven't started that high in 11 years

Is it really that hard to understand?

Is what that hard to understand, that they were across the country from one another, had different judges, that what happened 6 years, 11 years, 20 years, shouldn't have any bearing on a corps?

I'm not sure what it is to understand.

I mean, these points are really just talking points for people to speculate on, they have no bearing.

And I agree with Tom. Quarterfinals is really the first time anything matters any way, green shirt/score wise that is.

[dbc03]

Is what that hard to understand, that they were across the country from one another, had different judges, that what happened 6 years, 11 years, 20 years, shouldn't have any bearing on a corps?

I'm not sure what it is to understand.

I mean, these points are really just talking points for people to speculate on, they have no bearing.

And I agree with Tom. Quarterfinals is really the first time anything matters any way, green shirt/score wise that is.

But they topic is about why are Madison fans disappointed and Troopers fans thrilled. It has nothing at all to do with comparing Madison and Troopers actual scores. It's about the perception of a competitively successful start for different corps.

Madison fans have a higher expectations on a starting score than Troopers fans based upon past experience.

[troopers1]

If they still use regional scores to set the performance order at quarters, then those scores matter, too.

[toddschultz]

Hey Todd...

Relax buddy. I've told several people on here recently just to ignore me if what I say bugs them. Everything said in the last few posts is exactly right. DCP is and will always be a place for the less than informed to have a forum. We can't all be traveling with the corps...we can't have gone to every rehearsal...be on staff.....be a marching member anymore.

It's a place for us to bullsquat about drum corps. It's something that EVERYONE on here is passionate about.

Every year corps perform as expected, achieve more than expected, and sadly less than expected. That reality will be fully realized in August. Until then...anyone officially associated with a corps who believes anything said on DCP impacts what happens on the field or how their organizations are run are just WRONG. It doesn't harm organizations...it's just speech. The Boston Commons soapbox where everyone can have their say. I could not believe that a staff member of a corps contacted me with an IM last night about something I wrote. Why do they even bother? More importantly, wouldn't their time be better spent doing something else? Shouldn't they be workign harder to make their corps better than to be on DCP correcting an Olde Pharte like me?

I guess I was misinformed regarding the departure of Sal Salas from Madison last year. I was corrected last night and again this morning and I officially apologize for propogating this misinformation on DCP. I'm sorry and I retract the statement I made. I'll go back and edit the post so it is correct as well. My understanding is that there was a difference of opinion regarding management style resulting in Sal's departure. It's the past and I'm sure the present and immediate future is more important.

What I want to know...more than anything else really isn't about scores at all. Is Madison capable of putting together a show this year to cause audience members...like myself...to want to take kitchen appliances and small children and hurl them toward the field? 1999 like...2005 like? I remember the end of the 1993 Regiment show...I was on my feet screaming for like the whole last minute. I believe it's what more of us...here on DCP want to see from the top corps and it's not about the score.

<off soapbox now>

Tom...

Your right. And I would like to apologize to anyone on here that I may have offended. I just struggle with people thinking Madison is done because they marched one show.

That being said, I think you will dig the show. The guys are working really hard, and are a lot of fun to talk to and watch. THe show is full of energy, and a great time.

Tom, I would also like to tell you on a personal note, none of my comments I have made over the last 24 hours have anything to do with things you have said.