Modern Guard Out of Hand or Out of the World?

[guardgurl23]

ok...so i know that no one has posted about this thread for a few weeks...so it's pretty much dead...but i had finals...so you'll have to excuse me for reviving the thread!

LisaLisa...I agree with you.  It's not really an argument of old guard versus new guard.  I grew up spinning "old guard" and now I teach "new guard"...we wouldn't be able to have "new guard" if we didn't have the foundation of the old.

What matters is the level of care and time that the instructional staff puts into teaching and cleaning the work.  And George - this also goes for ballet and dance troupes.  In a well taught and well cleaned guard/dance group - you won't see an arm out of place or a flag misaligned.  Guards that have spent the time to clean and have an instructor that can actually break down the counts (counts being a key point here!) so the kids can understand them...should have practically flawless shows.

And for the argument that dance is not effective on the field...I urge those of you making that point to rewatch devils from 97 on.  I find they use dance in an effective manner that can be conveyed even to those of you sitting in row ff at madison.  

One last point before i jump off the box...for those of you who desire that guards should return to the days of old...let us take a moment and look at some of the recent shows done by corps...before you jump to flame...sit back and think about how well those shows would have been conveyed if the guard was wearing the helmets, the boots, and the unis of the corps?  Or for that matter...using the same old flags year after year with work that didn't flow with the concept of the show?  There is something in those old shows...I'll admit that I get excited and hyped up watching 27th's guard...BUT as an overall package...shows of the more recent years are far more exciting to watch...and seem more complete to me.

Ok...that's my opinion...I'm done.

Judy Easton  :)

[TrishDish1002]

been there...done both...it was hard then but its harder now with all the body incorporated into the work...you no longer get to just stand in second position and throw a 6...you have to toss it, do a saute and then catch it!

[CVKate]

Someone whipped out a tape of '84 Cavaliers winterguard the other day...I was floored (and it wasn't just their short shorts and mullets that got me). They were doing trick after amazing trick and they were spotlessly clean.

But even this paragon of what great "old" guard could be, could have been enhanced by some of today's techniqes: more drill, more movement connecting the tricks. And yes, more dance technique- they looked like drill team robots (in a sorta good way). They were excellent examples of what was right about 1984, and they tossed like gods, but I wouldn't want to go back to that limited movement vocabulary.

If a guard is clean- good. If a guard does difficult moves- good. If it does difficult moves and is clean- excellent.

[MikeD]

Trish,

>you have to toss it, do a saute

Need some olive oil??? A little garlic and some fresh herbs?

Mike

[wheelerand]

Lisa, you and I have debated this elsewhere. As you know, I agree with Terry - I prefer the "old guard". Through our discussion, I've come to understand and respect more of what the "new guard" is doing - I just don't personally like it. For example, I did not care at all for BD guard last year. I'm sure they were great at what they did - but I don't go to a drum corps show to see a vaudeville act. JMO, of course.

And yes, there are probably some dance routines that have some impact on a football field - but they are few and far between from what I have seen. A great unison toss or some really cool flag work is visible from anywhere, but there are intricacies to much of the dance movement that can't really be distinguished from "way up there" - cf SCV "New Era" chant.

To me, and again, this is JMO, much of the guard work today is distracting. I prefer to see a more integrated show, where the guard is more a part of what's going on with the whole corps. Most of the guard shows today feel to me like they are their own separate entity - the only relation they bear to the rest of the show is that they're happening on the same field at the same time. That doesn't make them bad shows, it's just not a style I can appreciate as much.

One thing I didn't like at first last year (my first in watching DC) was the guard uni's and how they did not match the rest of the corps. I have to say, over the course of the season, I think I got over that for the most part. Never did care for the circus-clown uni's of BK's guard, and really did not like the BD buard uni's, but many of them added some color to the show. (Although the mustard yellow has GOT to go...) As far as flags, just imagine how much Phantom's show would have lost at the end if they were marching with the same flags throughout. The color explosion at the end with all those flags was a highlight of the show to me.

So, some of my preconceived notions are changing over time. Maybe my view of the dance moves will, too. But for now, I say, "flags, rifles, and sabres". Huge metal sheets and Goodyears need not apply... (again, JMO)

[GMichael1230]

Lisa, you and I have debated this elsewhere. As you know, I agree with Terry - I prefer the "old guard". Through our discussion, I've come to understand and respect more of what the "new guard" is doing - I just don't personally like it. For example, I did not care at all for BD guard last year. I'm sure they were great at what they did - but I don't go to a drum corps show to see a vaudeville act. JMO, of course.

And yes, there are probably some dance routines that have some impact on a football field - but they are few and far between from what I have seen. A great unison toss or some really cool flag work is visible from anywhere, but there are intricacies to much of the dance movement that can't really be distinguished from "way up there" - cf SCV "New Era" chant.

To me, and again, this is JMO, much of the guard work today is distracting. I prefer to see a more integrated show, where the guard is more a part of what's going on with the whole corps. Most of the guard shows today feel to me like they are their own separate entity - the only relation they bear to the rest of the show is that they're happening on the same field at the same time. That doesn't make them bad shows, it's just not a style I can appreciate as much.

One thing I didn't like at first last year (my first in watching DC) was the guard uni's and how they did not match the rest of the corps. I have to say, over the course of the season, I think I got over that for the most part. Never did care for the circus-clown uni's of BK's guard, and really did not like the BD buard uni's, but many of them added some color to the show. (Although the mustard yellow has GOT to go...) As far as flags, just imagine how much Phantom's show would have lost at the end if they were marching with the same flags throughout. The color explosion at the end with all those flags was a highlight of the show to me.

So, some of my preconceived notions are changing over time. Maybe my view of the dance moves will, too. But for now, I say, "flags, rifles, and sabres". Huge metal sheets and Goodyears need not apply... (again, JMO)

Andrew,

I personally didn't care for a small part of the BD gaurd repetoire last year myslef, I hated the "hat" sequence, too hard to do in unison consistently.

If you want to see effective dance on the field that is simple.

Check put the last minute of the 1991 Cadets. Prelude, Fugues, and Riffs.....that guard is unbelievable, and on the same token, check out the last minute of the 99 Blue Devils, you would swear they were trained on Broadway, and both examples highlighted the intensity of the music perfect..

While I'm not a major(or minor) advocate of Dance on the field, these are two examples where it worked very well

~G~

[GMichael1230]

Someone whipped out a tape of '84 Cavaliers winterguard the other day...I was floored (and it wasn't just their short shorts and mullets that got me). They were doing trick after amazing trick and they were spotlessly clean.

But even this paragon of what great "old" guard could be, could have been enhanced by some of today's techniqes: more drill, more movement connecting the tricks. And yes, more dance technique- they looked like drill team robots (in a sorta good way). They were excellent examples of what was right about 1984, and they tossed like gods, but I wouldn't want to go back to that limited movement vocabulary.

If a guard is clean- good. If a guard does difficult moves- good. If it does difficult moves and is clean- excellent.

It had to be either 83, or 85...Cavaliers didnt have a guard in 84.

Was it James Bond Music ?? or was it a Billy Ocean song ??

~G~

[guardgurl23]

I think Cavies did have a guard in '84...they did West Side Story. If I remember correctly...they wore green jackets and jeans...it's on the Fan's Favorite 15 Vol 1...or whatever that thing is called. :)

[GMichael1230]

I think Cavies did have a guard in '84...they did West Side Story. If I remember correctly...they wore green jackets and jeans...it's on the Fan's Favorite 15 Vol 1...or whatever that thing is called. :)

That was 1982 - they were inactive for 1984, and they came back for 1985

~G~

[guardgurl23]

That was 1982 - they were inactive for 1984, and they came back for 1985

~G~

you're right! I'm sorry....it's sad how years start to run together :(