No Mass Appeal, No Future

[Piper]

......Could it be the DCI marketing? At a high school I taught a few years back there was a poster on the cork board. It was an official DCI poster that said "Want to do drumcorps?" Then it listed the addresses and phone numbers for only the big 12. I took it down and put a poster up for our local div 3 corps.

For whatever it's worth, I would've done the same thing.

[siuehist]

This is entertaining?

No wonder the activity is on life support, I have yet to see a show that I find mildly interesting.

I have watched the activity from a distance since I stopped marching back in 1990. Since 2000, the shows just get to be more and more boring. Alright, I know this may upset many people because those involved in the activity love it. However, has anyone ever really asked why there is only a handful of corps left?

Most people will say it is because of money or poor management, and I am sure that is true to a point. But I think it has more to do with the fact that today’s corps lacks any real mass appeal.

I think the activity needs to stop catering to itself and start giving the individual corps incentive to put out show designs that people who are not in the activity will enjoy. When is the last time you were at work whistling a tune you heard at a corps show? My guess is it doesn’t happen as much anymore because individual corps are more about effects then actual music.

In short, drum corps that are more universally entertaining will create more interest for the activity as a whole. More interest in the activity means more members and more cash flow. If drum corps is going to survive, it needs to rebuild it fan base first.

If you think I’m wrong, ask yourself this one simple question. Why is it that NASCAR has so many fans and generates so much revenue? Is three hours of left turns more exciting then a drum corps show? The answer is simple, everyone can identify with a car and feel of driving fast. NASCAR capitalized on the one thing most people have experience with, cars. Drum corps can do the same thing with music. If the shows and music are more universally recognized, or simply “catchy”, it will stick with people and find a place in their hearts.

If Drum Corps is to survive, corps need to think about mass appeal.

I have read the original post, only.

There will never be any mass appeal. In the past, where fraternal (sp) orders and organizations thrived, that is no longer the case in the 21st century. Drum Corps, Masons, FO Eagles, VFW, KC are all hurting.

America is also a stupid, ignorant society with their hangups. They see drum corps as nothing more than a bunch of band geeks, whereas NASCAR is accepted with all of its product placement.

The activity today tries to outdo itself every year. There needs to be a return to simplicity like the late 80s/early 90s. Most corps staff watch the rediculous BOA shows in the fall with all of the amplification and corny theatrics and think "wow, we've got to do that!" The activity has taken a nose dive as far as entertainment value is concerned. Some people complain about the Cavaliers, though I don't agree. The Blue Devils have forsaken their roots starting in 95, or 94 if you want to press the issue. The Cadets have jumped on the BOA bandwagon, and haven't had a solid theme since 98.

Spell check off, sorry

Edited June 26, 2007 by siuehist

[silvertrombone]

Something that I don't think has been brought up yet, if it has I apologize.

When we talk about growth and corps folding, money and management seem to be the only reasons talked about on here. I have personally seen at least 3 corps that I have been associated with folded because of membership numbers. The corps had/have great management and enough income to stay afloat, but just could not pull in the members. Granted its not entirely the "activity's" fault, but with at least one of the corps I am talking about, the kids would rather try out and get cut from a top corps, then be seen with a div 3 corps. PR had 700 people trying out for a spot this year, and I am sure most of them are sitting on there butts waiting for next years tryouts.

Yeah, but you can't require them to go march somewhere else in order to be eligible to try out for Phantom--that might not sit well with some 18-year old who is too good for anyone else (sarcasm off).

You raise a great point. Do you see why I keep suggesting this very simple rule? Win a championship, enter the realm of the "Tour of Champions," and your recruitment just got a bit more stringent.

Most people don't like my suggestion, or at least most of the younger crowd, but I haven't heard too many people say, "If I were required to march a year at Crown to be able to audition at Cavies, I wouldn't do it!" If it were a rule, people would have to adhere to it.

Keep watching, I will win more converts to this idea. I have chapstick give-away's to show my brilliance (sarcasm off again).

[rut-roh]

Most people don't like my suggestion, or at least most of the younger crowd, but I haven't heard too many people say, "If I were required to march a year at Crown to be able to audition at Cavies, I wouldn't do it!" If it were a rule, people would have to adhere to it.

Or they could decide not to march at all. Which is basically what is happening now. People don't generally like to be told where to march. That's not likely to change just because DCI makes a rule. Bad idea.

It would be great if people WANTED to march in other places (any place) if they don't make the corps of their choice, but in reality, that isn't always the case. And for the record, those top corps have worked tremendously hard to get to where they are. They have earned every bit of love and adoration they get from the fans. What you are doing is essentially penalizing them for being good at what they do...they have done what every corps wants to do. And they've earned it. Now all the sudden, they're not allowed to be that good??

I'm all for helping the corps not at the top to be better on the field and more stable off the field, but I don't think that penalizing the corps who are successful is the way to do it. There is much to be learned from them.

Edited June 26, 2007 by rut-roh

[Matt_S]

Speaking from my own personal philosophy, any rule that limits a kid's ability to march where he wants to march (provided he can make the cut at auditions, of course) is a poor rule. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to attracting new membership. Plenty of kids get cut as it is, encourage them to march somewhere. That would be a productive approach to the problem. But don't tell someone who is perfectly capable of marching the corps of his dreams that he can't do so, just because Corps X is struggling with membership.

[BlackSky]

I haven't read through all the posts but feel I need to add to this discussion.

First of all, this needs to be a discussion, not a bashing back and forth. Too often posters are put on the defensive for stating their opinions. If you don't agree with someone's opinion, there are other ways to respond without it coming across as an attack.

Second, I can understand the OP's position. I would reccomend that he bites the bullet and attends a show to either confirm or dispell his beliefs of where this activity is in this point of its evolution. No, it's not what it was back in nineteen tickety-two. But how many bottle dances can you see each year? (Just an example, not a flame.) It had to progress somewhere.

Third. If you didn't march 'back in the day', remember that a lot of us feel that drum and bugle corps is genuinely gone. It is now a drum and brass corp. Bb vs G, that simple. A lot of music is not easily related to by the masses and the precision work color guards and drills, although uberchallenging today, is gone. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It is what it is. Our era is over, yet I'm proud to have set the groundwork for what is there today.

Drum corps will always have a self generating fan base. Those that age out this year will be a fan next year. As will their parents and friends who supported them. Maybe eventually it will go beyond what is tolerable for them (It isn't like it used to be in the good ol' days of '07!) but the self generating base will still be there.

For those who posted pro and con on this thread I just want to remind them to remember the thrill when they marched, or sat in the stands. To someone out on the field today that same excitment and intensity is in their blood right now. Give them a chance. If you're unhappy with the direction, write a letter to DCI, in fact buy a ticket for an event and send it to them with the letter in protest. This way you support the venue with your purchase but send a message to the Board. One of my personal peeves is people that complain, yet do not show action. This also works both ways. Show support for the corps and style that you do relate best to. Buy a ticket. Buy a tee shirt. Send a prepaid gas card. Heck, sponsor a kid to march! Then send a letter to the corps explaining why you are supporting them.

Drum Corps will survive in whtever iteration it develops into. Let's just remember that each kid on the field is receiveing invaluable lessons and friendships that will shape and influence them for the rest of their liives.

That's the way to look at it!!

[Medeabrass]

Yeah, but you can't require them to go march somewhere else in order to be eligible to try out for Phantom--that might not sit well with some 18-year old who is too good for anyone else (sarcasm off).

You raise a great point. Do you see why I keep suggesting this very simple rule? Win a championship, enter the realm of the "Tour of Champions," and your recruitment just got a bit more stringent.

Most people don't like my suggestion, or at least most of the younger crowd, but I haven't heard too many people say, "If I were required to march a year at Crown to be able to audition at Cavies, I wouldn't do it!" If it were a rule, people would have to adhere to it.

Keep watching, I will win more converts to this idea. I have chapstick give-away's to show my brilliance (sarcasm off again).

Hey man. I usually agree with you on most things, but I gotta disagree with you here. This will probably get me flamed, but I was tired of marching in a half arsed organization in high school. The thing that attracted me to DC and the "elite" corps was the fact that they did things "the right way" (atleast according to me). I wanted to see what it was like to be part of one of the best and I only had 2 years to do it. I had the choice of paying more money and going to a corps that wasn't run anywhere close to the way Star was or pay less and get to be a part of something special in Indiana. I wasn't ring chasing. I was "quality" chasing :). If you forced me to spend a year somewhere I didn't want to be, I wouldn't have done it at all. That's just me. I'm all or nothing sometimes.

When I think about it, I don't think most of the kids who were forced to march somewhere they didn't want to march would be the kind of members these corps needed anyways. Think about all the uber-talented kids who come back to their hs marching band after a summer of DC and are so frustrated that they're nothing better than a thorn in the side of the director.

[DrumCorpsGurl]

I don't adamantly disagree with you on all of that. However, I would venture to say more progress could be made utilizing the addition of new equipment rules than not utilizing them. I wouldn't exactly think that woodwinds are on their way to DCI. Saxophones, yes. I know a saxophone is a woodwind. I play it....what i mean is...oboes aren't coming, nor clarinets/flutes/bassoons. Saxophone is actually the most feasible instrumentation addition of this caliber.

As much as I do agree sax is the most feasible, they still shouldn't be allowed. But I completely applaud you for saying that. Saxophone is powerful and I hate whoever classified it as a woodwind cuz it had a reed...the instrument was designed to have the power of brass and the finesse of a woodwind. I've heard saxes outplay their entire ensembles and not with awful tone either. And I don't think the sax looks weak like clairnet or flute. But still, drum corps is brass and percussion. It should stay that way. Drum Corps doesn't need to add WW's to expand their mass appeal.

I forgot who said it but having a drum corps perform at a BOA competition would attract many other people to the DCI organization. There are soooo many talented kids out there who have no idea what "drum corps" is. Before I came to know drum corps as it is all I had was a blurred concept of a what it was, but as soon as I started researching into it watching videos, listening, reading, etc. I absolutely fell in love with it and told myself I was gonna march corps if its the last thing I do. And I agree with Medeabrass, I'm an all or nothing type of a person. I march with my corps or no corps. And its not cause I want a championship, its because that corps is what I believe will give me the experience I want, ring or no ring. I dont agree with the "you have to march with corps X to march with corps of your choice" if your good enough to march with the corps of a your choice, then you should be allowed to do it.

[silvertrombone]

Speaking from my own personal philosophy, any rule that limits a kid's ability to march where he wants to march (provided he can make the cut at auditions, of course) is a poor rule. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to attracting new membership. Plenty of kids get cut as it is, encourage them to march somewhere. That would be a productive approach to the problem. But don't tell someone who is perfectly capable of marching the corps of his dreams that he can't do so, just because Corps X is struggling with membership.

Matt, this isn't a flame. I'm hearing a lot of the same from a lot of different people of all ages.

That being said, there's not much being done. That being said, I haven't seen much here answering the OP's original question/issue. I've kind of been dominating this thread (again) that somebody else started.

So, paraphrasing the OP, what do we do??? OK, great--buy a ticket and send it to DCI. Buy a t-shirt. Dang it--I WANT TO CHEER FOR CORPS (plural), not just send money to groups that don't give audiences (paraphrasing/quoting others, whether we like it, agree with it or not) what they want to hear. Not everything is Bottle Dance and Malaguena. See, once again, 93 Phantom Regiment, or any number of 100 other shows that we could all list, and pretty much do during the off-season!

I've blasted a couple of you pretty good for simply criticizing minor points and not contributing meaningful suggestions, or even constructive criticism, for which I issue a general, though not specific apology. I stand by my point, though I was pretty blunt in making it. (arrogantly stated, too)

Here's another way of thinking about what I am proposing/throwing out there. Don't think of it as limiting kids, think of it as limiting the top corps. Yeah, yeah--semantics. Several of you have said, "Not me, man! I'm gone!" OK, I'll even admit that I MIGHT have had ONE person voice support and a couple say something somewhat supportive. Thanks.

The idea isn't to say "you can't march here." The corps (plural) who have 600 people audition do that fine without my assistance. Here's a thought--have really serious people out to audition. If they just want the audition 'experience,' nobody needs that. Waste of time. Fundraiser. Here's another thought--did you hear about the Cavies Spring Training thing for potential future members, or high schoolers not invited to march the big corps but instead invited to come and experience base camp...whatever it was, great idea! Introduces them to drum corps and they're only there for about two weeks if that. Daily routine, DC drill, staff, etc, and they learn some real music/drill and have something of a mini-performance at the end of it all. BRAVO!! Great idea. All the corps should do this, and not by requirement--it just makes sense! "Gee, you're not good enough to do BD this year, but why don't you come out in June and do our 2-week junior camp?" Maybe even offer them a spot in BDB after that. Have some of the D2/3 corps out to talk to the participants. You know, if someone REALLY has their heart set on BD, nothing will stop them from doing BD--except their own foolish pride. If you don't march and don't march and don't march and just expect the top 3 to GIVE you a spot, don't be surprised if they give it to someone who marched Spirit this time, Crown next time, and a B corps the next time!

And so my proposal builds on that line of thinking. So you want to march top 3/6, huh? Just how bad??? Bad enough that you'll go march Crossmen, Blue Stars, Colts, Blue Knights, Boston for a year first? Or just bad enough that you want to show up to one camp and have the DCI elite just gush and fawn all over you? "Oh, you're the best high school trumpet player ever! Oh, we just NEED you in our snare line! Oh, NOBODY spins a rifle like you do! " I just don't see this happening.

Another thing. If most people who audition at, say, Phantom go home and do the couch potato thing (ie, don't march), just how many of those 600 annual auditionees audition more than one year? How many of them EVER march ANYWHERE???

You know, my math brain starts going off and says the following.

1.) 600 18-year old's show up to audition. 150 are chosen, 450 go elsewhere--either to the couch or another corps.

2.) Of 150, say there is 25% attrition rate due to age-out, etc. Maybe higher, but give me some slack for a simple illustration. That makes about 38 holes next year. Say the same 450 come back a second go-round. Not likely, but again...give me some slack. For rounding's sake, a whopping 50 spots are available, so 100 vets return, 50 new members come on board, and 400 go home.

3.) Now everyone is 20. Attrition, for ease of argument, takes another 50 for whatever reason. So now our original pool is down to 350. 21 comes around and you have 50 rook-out's, leaving a sad 300 who never had the chance to march with PR. They go away sad and bitter and populate the pages of DCP with malcontent for decades to come.

Simple and dumb for a very striking reason--how many of those 600 actually audition twice??? Do you have 300 new auditionees each year who didn't audition last year and have never marched? That sends 300 away every year to become obese couch potatos. Pardon my Dan Quayle spelling if I got that wrong.

Now take my proposal. Year one you have returning vets and members of other DC's show up to audition. Enough to fill out the corps? I would imagine so. And year 2 on takes care of itself--plenty of DC vets coming to audition at the top corps. But in the meantime you've had several hundred filling spots in 7-18 place corps. And there is, of course a demand for more D1 corps due to membership demands. And that means a trickle-down to D2/3 corps.

Would we all like to experience the thrill of marching top 3 D1? Sure! I was at the head of the pack. And I was lucky and blessed enough to be able to do so with the corps that I wanted to.

Unfortunately, there are 300-450 this year who don't get to do Phantom Regiment for various reasons--including those who were just auditioning for the heck of it. Were there any girlfriends auditioning for the guard just to be able to spend the weekend with their uber-trumpet boyfriend who made the brass line? Silly example, but I'm sure there were a hundred people auditioning who were not serious, or were there with friends, or had no business being there, etc. Whatever. And I have no problem with that. (side note: why did Regiment put out an APB on two brass players if they had 450 people they could have called? hmm...)

But of those 450, there were enough who could fill a whole other D1 corps, or two VERY GOOD D2's.

Believe me, Phantom, Cavies, etc will have NO PROBLEM filling out a very talented corps. And the staff of the average top 6 will beat whatever members end up in uniform into shape. Contrary to popular belief amongst some here, a whiz-bang staff will make champions out of a mediocre-talented membership LONG before an uber-talented membership will win anything with a pathetic staff.

Anyone care to dispute that??? Oh, I forgot the <IMHO> part, sorry.

The problem is not the top 6 getting theirs--they're not going anywhere anytime soon! But dozens and scores of other corps have gone somewhere, alright! And something must be done. I have my proposal. Several have mentioned regional touring models. Might work. Doesn't seem like DCI likes that much, now does it?

So...what is your suggestion??? Points for originality.

And don't blast me if you don't get numbers--read them again a couple of times.

[Triple Forte]

*sigh* And so because you can find one crusty vet who didn't like any of the 2006 shows, we're supposed to think doom and gloom for the activity? Boo hoo.

First let me say that I find this comment of yours to be "highly" offensive. How dare you say something like this about someone you don't even know? Who do you think you are? The man I speak is a good person....and if you met him I am sure you would have no trouble recognizing this yourself......

I can find plenty of people who had a blast in 2006. If I quote them for you, does that mean you have to acknowledge that the shows were entertaining?

Sure......it goes both ways though. You would also have to acknowledge that a good handfull of folks did not like the 2006 season....dont you think ?

This guy that you met up with, if he doesn't like the product, what was he doing paying money for it? If he felt so strongly, why was he even there? Most agree that there have been worse years than 2006, and I'm assuming your friend stuck around through those.

He has been tied up with a new family and work and helping out a couple of corps....so I dont believe he had attended to many shows in 04 and 05. He loves the activity and was looking forward to a great weekend of drum corps.....instead he was very diappointed in what he saw and heard. He is not alone......it seems looking at this thread.....

The cynic in me wonders, maybe your friend simply enjoys feeling superior to the kids he sees on the field.

You are so wrong and off the mark its crazy.......

Whatever the reason, if he pays money to go to a show, two nights' worth at that, and can't leave with any better to say than what you quoted, I think the problem lays with him, not with the corps on the field.

Actually as one of the many paying customers he simply stated his opinion.....which i feel holds quite a bit of perspective since he has been involved with Drum corps (Every div.), Marching band, indoor guard and percussion for many years.