Best contra/tuba section in 2007?

[LAMystreaux]

There's no CONTEST! Regiment does and WILL always have the better contra line. I've heard the bluecoats this year, and yes, they do have a few licks that aren't exactly easy....and I applaud them. Being a tuba/contra player myself, I always LOVE when the basses are featured. However, don't mistake a great arranger with a great line. I have no problem with the coats, but please realize that fast fingers will never replace the tone and overall balance that Regiment offers. Not to mention Regiment usually has two to three contra parts. AHHHHH!!! It's like an organ!

Sorry for the rant...I'm just passionate.

SUTA!!

They just will? Always? Wow. . .automatically?

OK, every other corps take note. Your contra line will never ever be better than Phantom's. Stop trying to be the best.

[shawn craig]

I've only heard one of the two choices, so will reserve judgement until Friday when I hear the other one.

Crown's contras should get an honorable mention this year. They give that horn line a great solid foundation. However, they don't get featured nearly as much.

[Eric M. Buckman]

OK what exact delusional status are you people talking about...for years Dev's have had on of the best and sharpist Contra lines ever....merely picking Coats and Regiminent is somehwhat of an interesting selection, as I believe both tend to have held 12 members in their lines this season...As the regiment has made the change from G Bugles to current Tubas the brightness of the Corps has increased...Regiment as a Corp has ALWAYS been centered around the Bass end...look at the music...but, I am not exactly sure what anyone is missing here...through the decades Devs have continued to produce a Contra line to be envied...'86, '88, 92 and on and on and on...and all this from a former CADET no less...hell SCV Contra line from 87 blows away most corps of today...and that was with two valved bugles...

[Chris Scott]

OK what exact delusional status are you people talking about...for years Dev's have had on of the best and sharpist Contra lines ever....merely picking Coats and Regiminent is somehwhat of an interesting selection, as I believe both tend to have held 12 members in their lines this season...As the regiment has made the change from G Bugles to current Tubas the brightness of the Corps has increased...Regiment as a Corp has ALWAYS been centered around the Bass end...look at the music...but, I am not exactly sure what anyone is missing here...through the decades Devs have continued to produce a Contra line to be envied...'86, '88, 92 and on and on and on...and all this from a former CADET no less...hell SCV Contra line from 87 blows away most corps of today...and that was with two valved bugles...

I'll take Freelancers '83 for $1000, Alex. :)

[cowtown]

based upon last night and seeing them head to head and back to back - Regiment, much better tone and control

[LeastLikely]

Even without bias, the book the coats line is playing is insane

they beat PR hands down

Sorry friend, but they're not gonna be the best tuba/contra line in DCI (tough music book aside) until they start marching like it. I don't care how well you play, if you don't physically intimidate people when you step on the field, then you're only half a section. Until the Bluecoats tuba/contra line starts marching like they're going to break someone's neck on every forward roll step, or stomp in some fool's nose with the power and poise of the hardest motha in the Tokyo Police Club, then all discussions of Coats being the best this year are really only obstinant at best. Ok, maybe that's going to far, perhaps just arbitrary. Yes, arbitrary is the word I was looking for...not sure how obstinant got in there, doesn't really apply in that circumstance.

dig it!

[Minimaster]

Then why do they march 14? When was the last 10-member Phantom C/T line? Numbers matter, and will matter even more when the limit goes to 150. If you do some simple math, going from 10 to 12 is a 20% increase...significant by any measuring standard. Going from 10 to 14 is a FORTY PERCENT INCREASE.

More simple math, from 2006:

PR had 14 tubas in a 72 member hornline...19.4% tubas

SCV: 12/64 (18.6%)

CAV, CC, MAD, BK: 12/72 (16.7%)

SP, GL, BC, CAD, Bluecoats: 10/64 (15.6%)

BD: 10/70 (14.3%...but I bet they wanted 12)

Bluecoats had one of the smaller ratios of tubas to hornline, but they were still one of the "pyramid of sound corps." That actually goes to your point. But those "undermanned" tuba sections have to work twice as hard....forget it if they're not staged very well.

Personally, all things being equal, I think the tuba:hornline ratio should be close to 20%, and PR gets kudos from me. But tubas don't really add to the volume of a hornline...they add to the "feeling." When PR is "on," one can "feel" the low brass against one's body; a physical sensation almost. It's a subtle thing, and explains why most corps are below 17%! (That is, the modern priority is placed on treble volume...not bass "feeling.")

PR and SCV "get it," and have for a long time. Bluecoats have [re]joined the party. The old-school 64 member hornlines with 12 contras were almost perfect. It's a new world order with B-flats and larger membership...

Next year, for 150 members:

80 horns (24/16/24/16)[20% tubas]

19 battery (9/5/5)

12 front

36 guard

3 drum majors

...and numbers don't matter? wow...

10 tubas or 14 tubas

How much louder is 14 basically,

Well for 10 tubas to sound twice as loud you would need 100 tubas,

so that 4 tuba difference would amount to about a 4 or 5 percent increase in

perceived loudness.

The "undermanned" tuba sections don't have to work twice as hard,

if the talent/sound poduction ability of various tuba sections is equal,

the difference in loudness is pretty much neglegable.

The bigger issue with loudness is distance, at most shows a tuba section on

the front sideline playing at a FFF on one note will sound 4 times as loud as at the back

sideline if you sat at the back of the stands. Because at twice the distance sound is

spread over four times the area.

[N2CORPS]

Then why do they march 14? When was the last 10-member Phantom C/T line? Numbers matter, and will matter even more when the limit goes to 150. If you do some simple math, going from 10 to 12 is a 20% increase...significant by any measuring standard. Going from 10 to 14 is a FORTY PERCENT INCREASE.

More simple math, from 2006:

PR had 14 tubas in a 72 member hornline...19.4% tubas

SCV: 12/64 (18.6%)

CAV, CC, MAD, BK: 12/72 (16.7%)

SP, GL, BC, CAD, Bluecoats: 10/64 (15.6%)

BD: 10/70 (14.3%...but I bet they wanted 12)

Bluecoats had one of the smaller ratios of tubas to hornline, but they were still one of the "pyramid of sound corps." That actually goes to your point. But those "undermanned" tuba sections have to work twice as hard....forget it if they're not staged very well.

Personally, all things being equal, I think the tuba:hornline ratio should be close to 20%, and PR gets kudos from me. But tubas don't really add to the volume of a hornline...they add to the "feeling." When PR is "on," one can "feel" the low brass against one's body; a physical sensation almost. It's a subtle thing, and explains why most corps are below 17%! (That is, the modern priority is placed on treble volume...not bass "feeling.")

PR and SCV "get it," and have for a long time. Bluecoats have [re]joined the party. The old-school 64 member hornlines with 12 contras were almost perfect. It's a new world order with B-flats and larger membership...

Next year, for 150 members:

80 horns (24/16/24/16)[20% tubas]

19 battery (9/5/5)

12 front

36 guard

3 drum majors

...and numbers don't matter? wow...

I was talking about sound quality......NOT sound quantity. Read again. Anyway, your point is invalid being that the poll is for 2007. Both Regiment and Coats have 12 this year. Actually, unless they've found someone Regiment only has 11 right now. I still thing that Regiment has a better SOUNDING Contra/Tuba line. Sorry...just my opinion.

[N2CORPS]

They just will? Always? Wow. . .automatically?

OK, every other corps take note. Your contra line will never ever be better than Phantom's. Stop trying to be the best.

HAHA....told you I was passionate.

[BlooooContra]

10 tubas or 14 tubas

How much louder is 14 basically,

Well for 10 tubas to sound twice as loud you would need 100 tubas,

so that 4 tuba difference would amount to about a 4 or 5 percent increase in

perceived loudness.

The "undermanned" tuba sections don't have to work twice as hard,

if the talent/sound poduction ability of various tuba sections is equal,

the difference in loudness is pretty much neglegable.

The bigger issue with loudness is distance, at most shows a tuba section on

the front sideline playing at a FFF on one note will sound 4 times as loud as at the back

sideline if you sat at the back of the stands. Because at twice the distance sound is

spread over four times the area.

Um.... yeah. Might want to study your sound physics before you start arguing, especially with a cat like Bob.

And as for a couple different points...

I totally agree, to be a GREAT contra line, you need to look like it. I don't think Blue is there yet. Honestly, I don't think Blue has ever been there. We've been close, very close, but at least since the shows I've seen (87-present), they've never had the 100% strong-looking line. It's ultra frustrating, but I've got my fingers crossed that it happens this year. It always seems to be about 7-8 bad muthas, and a couple stragglers who can always seem to play well, but they don't have that visual killer instinct. As a contra player, you've got to go out there every night, looking like some psycho who's about to eff someone up at the drop of a hat.

With these unis, not to mention a freaking show called Criminal... that should be happening by mid-July.

As for BD, they put out some AMAZING sounds. Unfortunately in the past, they always just float outside the rest of the hornline, doing absurdly easy drill. Lookin at their 07 show, it looks like that's really started to change. I'm loving the 07 BD hornline, and their contras are really doing a great job this season.

And on a totally unrelated sidenote, SCV's drill blows my freaking mind, and IMO has set the new activity standard. Time for everyone else to start playing catchup, except maybe the Cavaliers.

Ok, back on topic:

Go Blue.

:)