Who would win based on pure entertainment value?

[jonnyboy]

I was at Allentown both nights. Madison had the most applause and ovations (including a standing ovation when the scores were announced) of all the corps. I will say they weren't the best of all the corps, as I pretty much agree with the judges, but they were my favorite and my number #1 pick for entertainers of the weekend.

[Plan9]

Ye, probably wondering why DCI is not doing so well.

???? DCI not doing so well??? please explain! Have you been to any shows this summer???

[Jimisback]

Ye right

[chadwick]

I voted Madison Scouts...hands down #1 entertainment appeal IMO. Blue Stars come in 2nd.

[BloooTubaDad]

Have not seen all the shows, but at the Centerville show the Scouts had the crowd going wild.

msquared

[John Bogenschutz]

I'm not surprised that Madison is first, by a lot. But, I am very surprised to see BD 2nd. I thought they wouldn't be getting that many votes.

[megadrive]

I'm not surprised that Madison is first, by a lot. But, I am very surprised to see BD 2nd. I thought they wouldn't be getting that many votes.

I'm not terribly surprised BD got second.

[BRASSO]

I was at Allentown both nights. Madison had the most applause and ovations (including a standing ovation when the scores were announced) of all the corps. I will say they weren't the best of all the corps, as I pretty much agree with the judges, but they were my favorite and my number #1 pick for entertainers of the weekend.

So far in the poll, for " pure entertainment value", the Madison Scouts have more votes here on Monday afternoon than the Blue Devils, The Cadets, Phantom Regiment, Santa Clara Vanguard, Carolina Crown... combined

COMBINED.

That's more votes than 5 out the 7 Corps of the self proclaimed G-7 " TOP ACTS " are getting... combined.

You really gotta love this stuff.

Edited August 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[Threats]

???? DCI not doing so well??? please explain! Have you been to any shows this summer???

I can field this one for him. These are the facts, and they are indisputable:

1. Does DCI have as many corps as it has ever had? Heck no. There are fewer corps now than at any point in DCI's history except maybe its first year in existence.

2. Does DCI have as many shows/contests as it used to? No. This is, of course, a direct correlation to #1 above.

3. Does DCI have as many members participating in it? No. Even with the bloated expansion to 150 members, there are still not as many participants as there were during the peak of the activity.

4. Is DCI shown on television anymore? No. Not on PBS, and not on ESPN. And the leadership of DCI doesn't seem to want to do much about it.

5. Are there three viable divisions in DCI? Nope. Smaller corps started struggling (hmm....wonder if that had anything to do with making the member limit 150 instead of the old 135 or even older 128) so they folded Division 2 and 3 together. And now a group of corps wants to make a division of their own. Yeah, that'll help.

And now for some opinions, not facts:

You're confusing the overall issue.

Do the members of today's drum corps play and march really, really, REALLY well? Absolutely.

Do the drill designers of today's drum corps know how to write some fantastic, out-of-this-world stuff that looks great? Yup.

Do color guards of today put on great displays of emotion and workmanship? For the most part, yes.

Can today's brass players play technically and musically extremely well? For sure.

And yet, they are being given vehicles that focus mostly on chopped-up music that is arranged to highlight the visual design...not the other way around (with exceptions such as SCV last year, and PR most years). We end up with an ADD version of drum corps that is a VERY VERY FINE PRODUCT. But lacks something. It doesn't draw people into it the way it used to.

Allow me to present the usual comebacks to this when I've spoken with friends:

A. Drum corps is a visual activity. If I want to just listen to music, I'll go to an orchestra concert.

Response #1: Drum corps is a visual AND aural activity. I used to think they needed to be 50-50, but I don't believe that anymore. I think of drill as the thing that attracts the left side of the brain...but the music is what attracts the right side. The music is what brings passion to the activity. A cool drill move has a wow factor, but very rarely does a drill move bring emotion to the table.

Response #2: I've never understood why a good drill writer couldn't write good drill to music that has fully fleshed-out phrases. Steve Brubaker, George Zingali, John Brazale....they all did this. No, the drill wasn't as fast paced (16- and 24-count moves instead of 8-count moves), but are you telling me that Pete Weber, Mike Gaines, Jeff Sacktig, and the other high-profile drill writers couldn't go back and write a great drill show to the music of 1988 SCV? 1989 PR? 1990 Star? Come on...we're not giving the drill writers (or the audience) enough credit! Give us full phrases, full melodies, non-chopped up music....the drill writers will still write great drill to it!

B. 150 members gives 22 more members a chance to compete! It's a GOOD thing for corps!

Response: Yeah...if you're only interested in the big corps. It kills membership in the smaller corps (evidence: There are fewer small corps now). If we instituted a 128-member limit like there used to be, and did it for next year, at least SOME of those kids would flesh out the smaller corps. In the top twelve alone, you could field two entire corps on the extra members that were added. But instead, we pandered to the headline corps, once again. They got their wish...and the activity got a little less healthy.

C. Corps have to compete with many more things these days!

Response: There has ALWAYS been stuff that competes with corps. Television, video games, soccer leagues, after-school sports, summer baseball, these were all around during the heyday of DCI. It's not that there are many more things that compete...it's that DCI leadership has been an utter failure. Terrible marketing, terrible management. A lack of vision for the future. These all contributed to the downfall....not the internet or X-Box or IMAX moveis.

DCI is NOT doing so well. At least, not as well as it used to (and CERTAINLY not as well as it could, if it had better and stronger leadership and management).

Things that run by committee are usually doomed to failure. What DCI needed in the mid-90s was a dictator...someone with a strong will and the vision to make decisions for the overall health of the activity, regardless of the endless political maneuverings of George and David and their wannabes. Instead, we got people who seemed content to give the individual corps more power...and of course, those individual corps are more concerned with themselves than with the smaller corps. What they didn't realize was that this is all a synergistic activity...and sooner or later, the struggles of the smallest corps catch up to the bigger ones.

DCI has maybe 10-12 years of life left, barring an unforeseen shift of philosophy and management. Get strong leaders in the leadership positions, and make sure they are people that have the overall good of the drum corps activity (as opposed to the marching band or WGI activity), and the activity might be saved.

But I don't see it happening.

At some point, the G7 will go form their own sandbox to play in. Drum corps as we knew it will be dead.

I hope I am wrong.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Threats

[Todd Tanji]

So Madison gets tons of applause and people think they are entertaining.

BRAVO FOR THEM! They have re-established a magic brand that has worked

for them for decades.

But that doesn't mean that everyone else sucks and no one likes them.

Edited August 9, 2010 by BDUFLS