Fred Windish Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Some good suggestions there, 31rabbit! Our discussions of this issue are important. I do know some DCI decision-makers read our posts. This input should be helpful in determining what improvements are positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 There are already claims that the scores are too design heavy. Now we have mics failing and obvious performance issues, and the appropriate scores not being docked. What does the judge say "oh, I know what you were trying to do, obviously there is a mic issue that you couldn't control" ????? What if the horn line randomly cut out of a feature part? Corps must be punished for A&E issues. They will fix their issues when they start dropping places. Until then, there is no reason. BD should've gotten creamed for their trumpet solo that was volume 1000 at Allentown, but obviously they didn't. People in the crowd were literally covering their ears. There has to be risk / reward. Right now there is just reward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 46 minutes ago, soccerguy315 said: There has to be risk / reward. Right now there is just reward. That is definitely one of the biggest points coming out of this conversation. A&E is currently being given special treatment when things go wrong. That must change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Another thing that should be banned is anything that is the equivalent of a metronome or Dr. Beat. For example, Cavies' "Man, man, man, man..." recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 13 hours ago, Ediker said: Yup. They were 1st in Music Analysis, all three nights. In GE Music, both judges had them 3rd at prelims and semis. On finals night, one GE Music judge had them 2nd. The other judge dropped them to 5th. One judge was prepared to whack their placement... slightly. Yes, but General Effect 2 is the average of two judges at championships. Results: Prelims 3rd Semis 3rd Finals 3rd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Ediker said: Another thing that should be banned is anything that is the equivalent of a metronome or Dr. Beat. For example, Cavies' "Man, man, man, man..." recording. Guess no one can play Short Ride, in a Fast Machine ever again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Without time to give this adequate thought, my first instinct is that we need to return to 2009 rules to reclaim the spirit in which electronic instruments were introduced. For instance, during the competitive program, there would be no pre-recorded sequences. One stroke = one sound. To blast pre-recorded singing of the word "DIAMOND", the synth player would have to make two keystrokes (one for each syllable). The pre-show would allow any amount of sequenced, pre-recorded material that the corps has permission (licensing) to use. Amplification of brass players would be limited to soloists in the pit area, and no more than 12 players. Using either wireless mics or sideline mics to amplify marching brass or percussion performers would not be allowed. This would still allow creative effects such as pitch-bending to be employed, while preventing concerns about entire hornlines auto-tuning themselves. Samples or pre-recorded brass sounds, or sounds intended to mimic brass, would not be allowed. Wireless mics for vocalists were allowed under 2009 rules. However, the "general effect" of their use was supposed to be considered under 2009 rules, and 2017 rules. If such usage mars the "general effect" of a show to the point where the other 11 finals night performances are all more effective, then that usage should receive 12th place in GE2 at finals. Once that starts happening, corps will figure how how to use wireless mics where consistent success can be achieved (or conversely, how not to use them where such consistency cannot be assured). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfgang Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Lots of good discussion. Lets not forget one of my main points for this thread: Integrity. There are thoughtful counterarguments, especially Mike New's piano concerto reference. However, IN A JUDGED ACTIVITY, one thing that should be an absolute no-no is having any artificial brass (or brass-like) sound AT THE SAME TIME as the full ensemble plays. For a horrifying possibility, listen to the link below between the 4:25 - 5 minute mark. Imagine a lengthy, cool, fast drill which ends with a loud chord... with audio help. This is a perfect example from the world of professional theater that should be banned in a judged activity. http://www.marchingroundtable.com/2017/08/13/637-change-right-now/ Another related thing that is unethical (in a judged music activity) would be amplifying a few top players during what is presented as a full ensemble moment. If this was an exhibition or non-competitive activity, no problem. However, whenever judges are introduced to the mix, that adds the responsibility on the shoulders of DCI as an organization to ensure as much as humanly possible that the sounds being adjudicated are the actual live sounds produced by the performers. When Bluecoats did the pitch-bend in Tilt, I believe they put down the horns to make it obvious. I am concerned about the possibility of things that are not obvious.... and imo contrary to the spirit and sense of honor that should accompany a "level playing field." Edited August 23, 2017 by wolfgang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Sideways said: Guess no one can play Short Ride, in a Fast Machine ever again. Sure they can, if they play it, like Cadets did in '91. Correct me if mistaken, but there was nothing electronic keeping that beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, but General Effect 2 is the average of two judges at championships. Results: Prelims 3rd Semis 3rd Finals 3rd Correct, they remained 3rd in GE after crunching all of the GE sub scores. While one GE Music judge dropped them to 5th, the other raised them to 2nd, softening the blow. The point was that one brave judge appeared ready to be "that guy", and throw a number that better reflected the shortcomings in the show that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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