Bob984

J Missing tied everyone with a 3/20, and can not be found.....

J Missing is a very important, but very mysterious judge. They also live in total seclusion, and just like the Great and Powerful Oz, they can not be spoken to.

What many do not know, is that the judges do not give their numbers at the end of each corps performance any more. They have a tote/worksheet, but they can tweak and change their numbers, spreads, and positions throughout the show. It's actually a good thing. The judge can reflect at the end and tweak if need be. They are not allowed to converse with others, and once they verify and do their final send on their device, that is the same as turning in their sheets. I actually hate "seedings" of any kind, and prefer the corps drawing straws for position order...

That horseman can only ride so fast to get there......

I was with the corps (staff) 1979.......we knew we likely would not make finals, but just wanted to finish as high as we could.....thus the sign...lol....what is interesting, is whatever the penalty was in 1977 (if anything), it was far less than a point, as they had .4 in prelims and .5 in finals....I saw them several times that year, too (as I was competing against them at that time...lol), and they sang every show.....had they gotten their penalties, and Kilts went penalty free in 1977, they would have been 13th.....ironically, there most likely still would have been 13 corps (including the Cadets) in finals because of Bayonne's disqualification, though they got a court order to appear and compete in finals. Even funnier is this....back in the day, you were not allowed to speak on the field at all...a penalty.......the drum major could speak/give commands from the podium...that was it......there was a case when a member gave a judge a verbal warning because he was about to get mowed over....the penalty judge heard it and gave a penalty for speaking. Word got out, and no corps members gave warnings anymore, and judges were getting mowed frequently. After awhile, they put the word out that no corps would get a penalty for warning a judge....before that, in our corps, our smallest soprano did a pivot, his horn bell hit the judge's face, the judge went down, and then the member stepped on him moving out.....no need for a penalty.....

The above photo was definitely from 1979 prelims...I was there....we could not afford a point penalty...what I actually do not know is this.....in 1977, the corps DID sing an "Amen" at the end of the show........I noticed a .5 penalty for the corps in prelims, and .4 in finals, yet I do not know if they were penalized for singing or something else, and if it was for the singing, just how much.......interestingly, prelims in 1977 were quite tight scoring-wise, and their pre-penalty score (without anyone else getting penalties, either) was 10th place....they finished tied for 12th with the Kilts.....

I will not single out the corps, but as far as I know, this is the lowest recorded score in drum corps history for an actual performance............7/4/1982....so 40 years ago last week......the corps received a total score of 4.8 (out of 100).......

I am not sure the exact numbers, but going overtime with your show goes I believe in increments for every 15 seconds, or even shorter....people have lost contests for being 5 seconds overtime..............so if you went out and did like 8 minutes of overtime, the penalty would be gigantic.....I think it is the biggest "penalty" you can get short of disqualification........wrong notes and drill mistakes are not penalties but errors.....in the old days they were "ticks"/deductions...today, they are noted, but do not correlate directly to a tenth of a point as they did back in the day.......dropping things used to be assigned a penalty (usually guard/equipment), but I don't believe so anymore.......they have also expanded the boundaries, so I am not sure on those rules anymore, either.....overtime, though is definitely there, and would be quite hefty if you go way overtime............

Well put, and I totally agree with what you say. The "game", sadly is a problem. I am hoping that they (Crown) continue to do what they do well, and that others start to follow suit. I read that many people went into theaters last night where there were 8 total people in there, and this was from folks in several locations. If the QF broadcast does not do better in August, I would not be surprised if Fathom Productions bows out for next year.

You've seen Crown?? When/where?? Video-wise, I have only seen 90 seconds, and it was quite good. I also understand that they didn't have the ending out there yet as of a few days ago, so I don't believe you could evaluate that, and they are not out until 7/1....I am sure that they will be complete by then.....time will tell, and you also cannot compare scoring until the corps go head to head.....

Yeah, a real tribute....lol.........I also believe they are having a breakfast/brunch where you can pay to "hobnob"......THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of people spent 14 hour days on parking lots practicing (not astroturf stadiums like today) to showcase this organization. They will spend tons of effort on an "ageout ceremony" (we did not have those, other than maybe leaving shoes on the field) for many kids who only marched one season, and very few who marched 3)......many members who aged out in 1972 are now in their 70's....but like you said, "we are not dead yet"......I know that they have gone through tough years trying to get through this pandemic, but there would have been plenty of volunteers willing to run something special........their loss...........

I've seen some from 1981.....they were all prelims......same vantage point, so I believe someone got a camera in.......same corps as you listed....but I haven't seen any from finals........some are here....https://www.facebook.com/groups/2433228313665981/media/videos It was cool to see these earlier this year.....I was on staff with one of the corps........but the only video that I had was from DCI Midwest....I wish I had one from finals, as we were much better in finals than prelims.....

Yes, I know many corps back in the day had huge honor guards, both Jr. and Sr. Corps. Some of the alumni corps still do. Also, just like your corps, in mine we had some younger members (who would eventually become performing guard members) be the honor guard, in the corner of the field. I know that we did that at DCI finals in 1977....I don't remember if we did in 1978, though I think that we did (the option to plant that year....very controversial....was done by some corps).

Thanks for your reply. I know that Canadian Corps regularly competed in many of the big shows (US Open, World Open, CYO, etc.), but on first glance didn't see any at VFW, AL......I am going to look more, though. DCI had to change flag rules, as I know in 1978 they allowed for the controversial posting in the corner....what I do not know is if it was required to be fielded at that time....not long after, AF squads disappeared, so if there was a requirement, it was dropped. Having zero control over judging rules, and also non-uniform judging rules across the country was one major factor in breaking away from AL/VFW and forming DCI. Another thing seldom talked about is this.......many corps were not onboard with the advent of DCI in 1972.....so much so that several major competitors did not attend the first few DCI Championships.....including corps that likely would have been finalists, based on results of their appearances in other shows those years. Money (travel costs to Whitewater) was one issue, but by no means not the only one.

Favorite for me.....Madison.......great sound....huge place......no negatives on the place......... Least favorite: Lucas Oil/Indianapolis........the sound is very bad........parking is bad..........bad/slow concessions......I have stopped going there......too much money for the problems, and other than enjoying my visit to the Speedway, not a place that I want to go to back every year, at a high cost....I actually liked Bloomington better, as the stadium there sounded fine, and all was better.......

I have some questions regarding flag presentations and the transition from VFW/AL to DCI.....In VFW and AL, an American Flag presentation was part of a corps' show. It was required by AL, and I am not sure, but most likely required by VFW as well. In 1977, the corps that I was in received a 2 point penalty at AL prelims for not having one (it was not required by DCI/DCE), and we put one in for finals. It was no intended disrespect by our corps; we just were not aware of the requirement, and it was our first appearance at a Legion Nationals, which still were under their own rules/judging sheets. Question one: prior to DCI, were any Canadian corps ever in the VFW/AL championships, and if so, were they exempt from the rule? My guess is that maybe AL and VFW limited participation to American corps only?? They may have even had to be sponsored by a post; we were. Other major shows did have Canadian participants. In the earlier seasons of DCI, many corps still had flag presentations.....I believe that the Troopers may have been the last corps that I saw do one. In 1977, I know that many corps had "honor guards", which usually were in the corner of the field during the show, and they also led the corps onto the field, and were in front during retreats. In 1978, there was a big controversy.....DCI allowed the flag to be placed in a stand at the corner of the field and remain there unmanned during the show. The member would march there with the AF, place it in the stand, and then could go and perform. Some did this, and some still had a squad. I actually do not know how things ended up after that season regarding that. I also do not know what the requirements were from 1972 on, and what was specifically in the rules. I know that not too long after 1978, the American squads disappeared during the shows....they were still used on retreat, but not during the competitive appearance, unless the corps chose to do a presentation.

I honestly do not know how so many kids are still doing the activity now.....paying nearly $5K, plus rapidly escalating costs to get to rehearsals/camps, whether by air or land.....and most are in college, and those costs are astronomical as well.........like you said, there's no way I could do it now......and many that I know could not have, either......

Actually, vacation destinations tend to have more competition/flight deals than other places....but even that is changing now.............I live in Florida near Orlando..........and "deals" can still be found, but there are far, far fewer cheap flights in and out.............

RIP Mickey.

Yeah, pads on the bus are not great.....but one can at least keep from tightening up if you are in a location where you can't warmup because you are too close to the field........Everyone has a phone.....there is zero reason that a green/red code text could not be constantly sent......and until they start throwing penalties left and right, it will continue......no matter what, I shouldn't hear anything in the stadium other than the corps performing on the field...nobody's warmup should be more important.

The penalties for your warm-up sound carrying into the stadium need to (and are not) be consistently applied. In this day of "technology", they could easily employ a red/stop message, and green/go message for warmups....I have no problem with it, until the corps on the field starts their show....that is all that I should hear at that time. It's been bad many times at Allentown, and other shows as well. Give the penalties, and it would stop. The corps have had all day long to practice. I've even heard some of the harshest violations from color guards using an extremely loud amplified Dr. Beat. Guard work warmups can be quiet or to a gentle clap. Drummers can warm up on pads in the bus, and brass can have mouthpieces on the bus. Not ideal, but it is something. No corps should have the right to disrupt the performance of the corps on the field. If they are going to play full out after the show starts, they need to do it between performances, and at breaks....or in areas far enough that you can't hear them, and with some venues, this isn't possible. Corps that go on late are already "awarded" significantly more rehearsal/warmup time....now, they can show up at a show and disrupt other corps' performances on the field. Not acceptable.

They would not allow DCI to broadcast finals...for what reason, I don't know. The audio recording was allowed, though. Some amateur video of prelims (not done by DCI) is out there......

Many are addressing the increased costs for the operation of the corps.....certainly a significant concern......though I agree that the corps will figure out how to get through. However, the impacts on individual members of the corps could be just as concerning. If suddenly it costs a member double or triple what it cost not long ago just to get to rehearsal, that could be a "deal breaker" for kids who saved and planned for x amount of dollars to march, and suddenly it is much, much more......some simply might not be able to do it.

Long time DCI/DCA and band judge Joe Allison has passed away. RIP Joe..........