gellio

Ah, got'cha. It was certainly fun. Someone from '88 SCV told me Royer told his corps that they better be very concerned about us. Wonder if that's true. I think BD was utterly stunned. You can see it in the DM's face on the finale video and by the corps reaction on the field. It was a great year. I think we were lucky that Garfield wasn't up to their usual tricks of sneaking up to take it away from everyone, cause their show was great too.

Looks like Madison has been making some great progress. So, are they in or out?

I know that. Where did I ever say we beat SCV or BD before finals week? We lost to Cavies once (DCM Finals), Cadets (once by .1), and a few times to Phantom and Star. Still, I never in a million years thought we were going to finish lower than 4th at finals (at any point in the season) - even after DCM Finals. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. All year, SCV only lost to two corps (us and BD). Being that at the last show we saw them (SCV) before finals week, we lost by .4 - I gathered we were 3rd or 4th coming into finals (due to the ever pesky Garfield :) - you never knew with them) and that Phantom, Star and Cavies hadn't been nearly that close to SCV. It would have been absurd to think that we were 7th and SCV was 6th at that point, so what else was I supposed to think other than we were sitting 3rd or 4th coming in.

I agree. That was my favorite show of 2005. I thought it was awesome, and I was happy they managed to bump off Boston and get 8th place. Personally, I thought that show should have been battling for 5th place with Bluecoats and Madison. I still am unsure why they were scored about 5 points lower than they should have been...but I'm not a judge.

I don't know if they (PR) won field visual, but I know they won GE Visual (which is INSANE) and the Cavies won GE Music (which is also INSANE).

The analogy doesn't hold. I marched Madison because I loved the philosphy and because they were/and are one of the most popular corps. I never thought, going in, that I would win a ring - best of both worlds I guess. Competitive drum corps is nothing like competitive sports. In competitive sports, the only objective is to win. Not so in drum corps. Of course everyone likes to win, but I'm sure there are people marching in corps that don't stand a chance to win that could be marching in BD or Cavies this year. During my day, the only three corps I would have even considering marching in were Madison (duh), Phantom and SCV. Example - as much as I thought Garfield was the total ####, I would have never in a million years wanted to march Garfield. And in the late 80s/early 90s, you stood the best chance of winning a ring if you went with Garfield.

Were you all shocked? What did you think was the highest you would place at finals during early '88? I remember being shocked - it was like you all came out of no where, even though you topped Regiment in early '87 too.

I agree. I've never understood GE judging. How the heck did Phantom win GE Visual in '06? How the heck did Cavies win GE Music in '06? IMO it should have been switched. Regiment has without compare the best musical program this year - Crown 2nd. BD and Cavies - BORING!

Since when. 2006 is the only year in recent history I remember Crown dropping a place. I do not see Crown finishing any other place but 4th at finals. They have a tremendous show. Should be 3rd (IMO), with Cavies 4th. Regiment better win. It is hands down the best show on the field this year. IMO Regiment has the best music, Vanguard the best drill, but Regiment has the total package. I've never pulled for Regiment to win, but I am this year.

While I would agree no one touched BD in brass that year, we placed 3rd in brass (behind BD and Garfield), so I'll take what a qualified judge says over you Carlito! I believe we had our best performance in Semis (as the score would indicate). I, for one, was nervous because based on comments from our staff and our close score to SCV right before finals week, I thought we had a chance to win it all.

I hate when announcers do that. I've also heard announcers say "Sanna Clara Vanguard". We, in the Scouts, always called them Phantom. So did people I knew in other corps. We always referred to other corps as, Star, Santa Clara, Garfield, Cavies, Spirit, Suncoast, BD, VK, 27, etc.... just short names. I think the two coolest names in DCI are Phantom Regiment and Santa Clara Vanguard. I just have to say I freakin' love Phantom's show this year. I hope they win it all.

Exactly - in any close judging a case can be made. The winner is not always the crowd favorite, and that's the way it should be. '88 was special because the whole drum corps world seemed to be in sync. I have to say, SCV and Garfield - two purely class acts. Loved all the congratulations I got from members of both corps after finale. I was so happy to be on the field in '89 when SCV won.

We weren't 7th going into finals week, although that was a possibility (in the eyes of many), but I never thought for a second going into finals that Star, Phantom or Cavies would beat us. We only saw Garfield once before finals (and you never knew with them, but they were struggling with Cavies, Phantom and Star). Of course, I never imagined we'd beat BD, but we were .4 down from SCV coming into finals, which put us 3rd (considering Star, Phantom or Cavies hadn't come that close to SCV).

Sorry, Garfield was never in the 10 to 12 range in 1986. I believe only six corps beat them all season (BD, SCV, Cavies, Spirit, Star and Madison). I don't believe Suncoast (5th finals) ever beat them in '86, but I could be wrong. Yes, 27 pushed them for a hot minute, but Garfield was never even remotely close to placing lower than 8th that season. Sky Ryders (9th), Phantom (10th) never came close to putting pressure on Garfield, not to mention any one else. 27 getting that close to them was strange. I remember hearing about that on tour and being really excited, as I had never witnessed 27 at the top of the game. I was really hoping they'd put pressure on the top 8.

Others corrected you. I remember I was shocked with the outcome in Whitewater. After 1987, we all though Phantom was going to be the corps to beat in the midwest that season. It was an interesting start to the season, for sure.

Very true, but no reaction has ever come close to the reaction we received when winning in 1988. The absolute, undisputed crowd favorite that night. I don't think the poster was saying that no one thinks BD or SCV shouldn't have won in '88 (where I can say no one should have won other than those you listed above in '86, '02, and '82). Rather, that it was perhaps the only time in DCI history where one corps was the overwhelming crowd favorite, and that's pretty impressive considering the great shows on the field that year - '88 Cavies was a masterpiece of design IMO, Blue Devils were powerful and thrilling, and Santa Clara was the embodiment of beauty and grace. Still, no one received the crowd response we received - not even close. I will never in my life forget the crowds reaction when we won. It was unbelievable. Yes, people say SCV and BD should have won. So what? The fact is no one on earth is qualified to judge all captions, even the judges themselves, and it was a tight race between the three of us. In every single year where there is a close race a case can be made for another corps winning ('78, '83, '84, '87, '88, '89, '90, '92, '93, '96, '98, '99, '00...etc....etc...). Very few years in DCI history can we not make a case for another corps winning...such as the three years you mentioned. Honestly, I am not sure we would have won if that system wasn't in place. Not that I have no faith in judging, but had the judges placed BD or SCV 1st it would have been reasonible.

1. Blue Devils 2. Phantom Regiment 3. Cavaliers 4. Carolina Crown 5. Santa Clara Vanguard 6. Cadets 7. Bluecoats 8. Blue Knights 9. Blue Stars 10. Boston Crusaders 11. Madison Scouts 12. Glassmen

I agree. The Finals judges had no idea what the semifinal judges had done. Can you imagine if we had won Semis with a 97.8 then placed 5th or 7th in finals? The judges would have lost all credibility... they had no choice but to completely remove their bias and it worked. I'm sure a lot of corps directors didn't like it because they didn't place as well as they'd have liked. IMO it was the best system ever used...not just because we won, but because it removed the bias completely.

Sorry, I was on the field that night during finale and I have finale on tape. There is NO question that a overwhelming majority of the crowd agreed with the judges placement. They went nuts when BD was announced in third and exploded when SCV was announced in 2nd. I have never, in all my years of DCI, heard a crowd react even remotely close to the way they did when SCV was announced in 2nd in 1988, and that's saying something because SCV's show was spectacular (so was BD for that matter). Three awesome performances that night - the chips just fell in our favor.

Then explain how the scores for the lower corps in finals always drop, while the scores of the upper corps always increase. if the judges are assigning appropriate numbers? I mean, it is absolutely impossible that on every single finals all the top corps have better shows than semi's, thus justifying a score increase, while all the lower corps have worse shows, thus justifying a score decrease. Placement orders are always right IMO, but the way people explain scores and spreads is absurd. There is not logic explanation for it. It's infuriating IMO that lower scoring corps are always punished on the sheets. Subjectivity is a bad move IMO...there has to be some metrix other than the subjective.

Crown will win and go on to finish 3rd at finals.

I can't believe this, but I cannot find where the ADP's are on dci.org. I'm sure there right in front of my face. Can someone please guide me?

A blip on the radar? No. In 1987, you guys came out and beat Regiment at Whitewater. THAT was shocking. Didn't you also top Suncoast quite a few times that year? In 1988, you guys came out and finished 2nd at Whitewater - beating Cavies, Regiment and Star. THAT was crazy. I think the drum corps world must have taken notice that night. That was really the Bluecoats first impressive competitive feat IMO, not that making finals in the first place isn't, but beating those 3 powerhouses? That was a wild night. We had heard all these great things, in the off season about Regiment. We had already beaten Cavies coming into Whitewater, and thought Regiment was going to be our only challenger, and then they ended up 5th. That was a major surprise. Granted, two nights later they tied us in Normal. Fun year that was. I think '86, '87 and '88 obviously laid the foundation for the 8th place finish in 1989. I don't remember much of anyone from '87, but I really liked your '88 show. Very entertaining. Question for you - what did you guys think that night in Whitewater? I mean you guys must have been on cloud 9. Did you guys think you had a shot at top 5 that year?

Are you new? Every MF on here thinks they are qualified to judge all captions. How many times do we hear "so and so got screwed" "so and so should have won"? Get off his back. He didn't like the show and said some negative things. Big deal.

Yeah, I love these stories. Of topic, I know. Mozart had little acceptance in Vienna. In Prague he was a sensation. It's funny visiting Vienna today (one of my favorite cities) because Mozart is every where. I think Wagner actually intended to write a 13:30 to 14:30 opera (The Ring). I once had a recording that was over 17 hours and it was ridiculously slow. Still, The Ring is awesome and one of my favorites. To get on topic - yes the Cadets are less valid than any of these great artists....all drum corps are <- I said that to myself.